>Who would win? A carnivore considerably larger than the opponent with a mouth full of razor sharp teeth and claws at the end of it's extremely powerful legs designed to kill or an herbivore with tusks at best?
Gee, I wonder!
>The dinosaur built to hunt sauropods by bleeding them to death Vs an elephant
What the frick do you think, it would just have to bite the elephant once and it would die on its own Komodo dragon style
What can the Carcharodontosaurus actually do though? If the elephant hug its legs with its trunk it can't reach it with its arms, and its too sluggish to get away while you repeatedly pommel it from behind. If the elephant stands to the side of its legs then it won't even be able to hit you with a back kick. If it raises its leg to perform a stomp then all the elephant has to do is back off until it finishes its slam, then move back in to continue hugging.
what "recent science"? can i see models of this alleged 10,000+ kilograms tyrannosaurus which was baseline according to you? when i was a kid they were 5-6 tonnes
this makes me uncomfortable. i don't know how the two would lock their proverbial horns. i assume the tusks would at least make the rex hesitate about biting the elephant's head, and all the elephant has to do is look up to keep them bumping and scraping against the rex. even if we take Sue and your "average" bull i think she'd probably decide it's not worth the hassle, especially on musth
I really don't think either creature would stay and fight to the death unless the size difference is twice as vast as presented in this image
We may have to consider oxygen levels. Modern day oxygen levels would surely hamper the Carcharodontosaurus's ability to exert itself and have power to its movements. Meanwhile taking the elephant into the Cretaceous's oxygen levels would only make it stronger.
If you take the Carcharodontosaurus into the modern day Sub-Sahara and made it confront a bull elephant on musth it would probably get taken out with relative ease
Were talking about a hypothetical scenario in which these two meet in the wild, right?
Mega-theropods like T-rex, Giga, and Carcharo are not going to attack a fully grown African bush elephant. They are animals, not movie monsters.
It's too risky. T-rex usually avoids healthy adult Triceratops for the same reason.
Predators, especially solitary ones, will do everything they can to minimise the risk of injury.
I think they would go after a calf or a juvenile or sub-adult elephant.
But going after them won't be easy. Elephants travel in herds of up to 100. Female African elephants can grow large tusks. They will stand and fight.
Unlike triceratops, elephants are extremely intelligent. This means that they can form basic strategies to counter new threats relatively quickly.
Also, elephants have incredible hearing and will hear a large therapod coming from a mile away.
This gives them more time to either prepare for the encounter or avoid the threat all together.
>Bull elephant has a good chance of winning.
Shorter, stockier build with fours legs for pushing vs. uneven bipedal stance.
Also this^^
Bull elephant has a good chance of winning.
Shorter, stockier build with fours legs for pushing vs. uneven bipedal stance. The rex could maybe grab the back of the neck and work it down though. If those teeth work like a varanid's, it's gonna shred a lot of flesh really badly and maybe bleed the elephant out before the tusks can do major damage.
>dino is bigger and has monster jaws >elephant has more armor and stands on four limbs which makes it harder to knock over
probably the dinosaur but it would be close
trexs dont knock down their prey, they could, but its not necessary, theyre not a cat or dog thats smaller than their prey and need to drag it down, they just bite and rip, which makes no difference if the prey is standing or laying down
a more fair fight would be a herd of elephants versus a large theropod. Elephants can't take advantage of their strong suits in a 1v1 situation, its like asking who wins lion or tiger 1v1 but there is NEVER just one lion so its a bullshit, moronic comparison.
What can an elephant actually do though? If you hug its hind legs it can't reach you with its truck, and its too sluggish to get away while you repeatedly pommel it from behind. If you stand to the side of its hind legs then it won't even be able to hit you with a back kick. If it raises its leg to perform a stomp then all you have to do is back off until it finishes its slam, then move back in to continue punching.
We've had this thread dozens of times now. Elephants are not capable of any meaningful self-defense against a predator so much larger than them and without having had any serious predators in their ecosystems for thousands of years.
And you have been wrong dozens of times now. Dinosaurs had fragile, hollow bones and quite a lot of his weight were in the tail. Elephant is all muscle, his skin is very thick and leathery, and not to mention sharp tusks. Sure he get injured during fighting but at the end charco must give up and look elsewhere for dinner.
Does the human male have a large caliber rifle or maybe a spear?
If he's unarmed, my guess is he's just going to run away as the animal specialized in killing 40-ton Sauropods bleeds the elephant over the course of a few hours before finally dispatching it.
Animals aren't stupid they don't have to see a peer or near pear predator more than once to know when to run away and when/how to fight. I do agree with you that it's very likely the Carcharodontosaurus would dispatch the elephant. but if elephants in the past could learn to live with near-peer predators then modern elephants could as well.
And you have been wrong dozens of times now. Dinosaurs had fragile, hollow bones and quite a lot of his weight were in the tail. Elephant is all muscle, his skin is very thick and leathery, and not to mention sharp tusks. Sure he get injured during fighting but at the end charco must give up and look elsewhere for dinner.
You are an idiot. Carcharodontosaur hunted animals that dwarfed elephants, animals that would have shattered bones with direct hits from their tails and legs, titanosaurs that beyond their enormous size had evolved large osteoderms and hip spikes to try and deal with predation. >his skin is very thick and leathery
Elephant skin is not especially thick at all because it runs counter to the needs of thermoregulation. A Carchardontosaurus' tooth is both long enough and sharp enough to shred elephant hide without issue.
There is no way that a little guy like that takes down a sauropod. No way, not even im a group. Perhaps it scavenged or got a sick one. Predators rarely go for preys close to their own size, too much risk. Even wolves only sometimes get a moose that is already sick or something.
Most theropods punched far higher above their weight class than most modern animals though that's probably because there are so few giant megafaunal specialists left some lion prides hunt elephants, but with nothing like the regularity of Homotheriun hunting Steppe Mammoths. Velociraptor weighed 43lbs at max and hunted 250lb protoceratops. Deinonychus wieghed 160 and it hunted 1 ton tenotosaurs with tenotosaur bones haveing both post-mortem and healed over wounds from Deinonychus. There is evidence of Acrocanthosaurus, a similarly sized Carcharodontosaurid, trying and failing to hunt an adult Sauroposeidon which was an animal between 40 to 60 tons. Saurophaganax Maximus only had overlapping range with its smaller cousin Allosaurus where truely giant sauropods are found. Yes, you can argue for the incompleteness if the fossil record as being the cause, but ranges indicate that Saurophaganax was hunting bigger prey than Allosaurus. Then there is the matter of them living in mixed aged extended family groups which Mapusaurus and Giganotosaurus both are confirmed to have done which helps explain how a 6 to 10 ton animal could bring down a 40 ton animal.
a more fair fight would be a herd of elephants versus a large theropod. Elephants can't take advantage of their strong suits in a 1v1 situation, its like asking who wins lion or tiger 1v1 but there is NEVER just one lion so its a bullshit, moronic comparison.
The Carcharodontosaurus likely would not be alone either.
>elephant vs something that hunted things much bigger and more dangerous than elephants
Seems like a no-brainer answer to me.
This. It's not just comic book/cartoon type shit, theropods really were much more dangerous than some "experts" seem to think. Children unironically have it right here.
>Velociraptor weighed 43lbs at max and hunted 250lb protoceratops.
I have always been a fan of the theory that ceratopsians were incidentally or periodically carnivorous with a point being that the fossil featuring the protoceratops biting the velociraptor is actually an incidence of hunting behavior instead of self defense.
I remember there being a paleoart trend of drawing scavanger ceratopsians. Has there ever been evidence of this being the case? like stomach contents or coprolites?
>Velociraptor weighed 43lbs at max and hunted 250lb protoceratops >Deinonychus wieghed 160 and it hunted 1 ton tenotosaurs
Both are pack-hunters, 1v1 they're going to lose/flee.
>there are still morons saying this stupid shit
Jesus Christ, Saurophaganax has completely different chevrons from Allosaurus, it's far more robustly built than any Allosaurus. Even the paper that synonymized jimmadseni and atrox made no attempt to synonymize Saurophaganax.
https://i.imgur.com/pY4TLMZ.png
Were talking about a hypothetical scenario in which these two meet in the wild, right?
Mega-theropods like T-rex, Giga, and Carcharo are not going to attack a fully grown African bush elephant. They are animals, not movie monsters.
It's too risky. T-rex usually avoids healthy adult Triceratops for the same reason.
Predators, especially solitary ones, will do everything they can to minimise the risk of injury.
I think they would go after a calf or a juvenile or sub-adult elephant.
But going after them won't be easy. Elephants travel in herds of up to 100. Female African elephants can grow large tusks. They will stand and fight.
Unlike triceratops, elephants are extremely intelligent. This means that they can form basic strategies to counter new threats relatively quickly.
Also, elephants have incredible hearing and will hear a large therapod coming from a mile away.
This gives them more time to either prepare for the encounter or avoid the threat all together.
>Bull elephant has a good chance of winning.
Shorter, stockier build with fours legs for pushing vs. uneven bipedal stance.
Also this^^
oh god, its the "elephants are invulnerable because they are intelligent" idiot from the last thread. >Predators, especially solitary ones,
Numerous tyrannosaurids and Carcharodontodaurids like Daspletosaurus, Mapusaurus, and Giganotosaurus have evidence of pack behavior.
>Carcharodontosaur hunted animals that dwarfed elephants,
OP makes it seem like they're face to face at that range, so most predation tactics go out the window
cut the crap. tyrannosaurus didn't fricking box triceratops but ambushed juveniles. the evidence shows a head on fight resulted in a gored tyrannosaurus
>Who would win? A carnivore considerably larger than the opponent with a mouth full of razor sharp teeth and claws at the end of it's extremely powerful legs designed to kill or an herbivore with tusks at best?
Gee, I wonder!
Dumbass thread. Op cant be older than 13yo
Elephants would win in a group fight
>The dinosaur built to hunt sauropods by bleeding them to death Vs an elephant
What the frick do you think, it would just have to bite the elephant once and it would die on its own Komodo dragon style
What can the Carcharodontosaurus actually do though? If the elephant hug its legs with its trunk it can't reach it with its arms, and its too sluggish to get away while you repeatedly pommel it from behind. If the elephant stands to the side of its legs then it won't even be able to hit you with a back kick. If it raises its leg to perform a stomp then all the elephant has to do is back off until it finishes its slam, then move back in to continue hugging.
I took a crack at comparing the average and largest bush elephants to "Sue". I think the big man would take it
Sue is an exceptionally large T-rex.
Anyway, I doubt huge T-rexes like Sue or Scotty would risk getting into a fight with a massive African bush elephant like the 'Angolan Behemoth'.
>Sue is an exceptionally large T-rex.
Says who? Recent science states that rexes might have comfortably grown past 10 tons, and fossils are rare.
what "recent science"? can i see models of this alleged 10,000+ kilograms tyrannosaurus which was baseline according to you? when i was a kid they were 5-6 tonnes
Power creep is a b***h
this makes me uncomfortable. i don't know how the two would lock their proverbial horns. i assume the tusks would at least make the rex hesitate about biting the elephant's head, and all the elephant has to do is look up to keep them bumping and scraping against the rex. even if we take Sue and your "average" bull i think she'd probably decide it's not worth the hassle, especially on musth
Get reckt, c**t.
>10 meter long rex
I feel like if something can take down an anklyosaur on land, it can deal with anything
I really don't think either creature would stay and fight to the death unless the size difference is twice as vast as presented in this image
We may have to consider oxygen levels. Modern day oxygen levels would surely hamper the Carcharodontosaurus's ability to exert itself and have power to its movements. Meanwhile taking the elephant into the Cretaceous's oxygen levels would only make it stronger.
If you take the Carcharodontosaurus into the modern day Sub-Sahara and made it confront a bull elephant on musth it would probably get taken out with relative ease
Popcorn vendors because they'd make a killing providing snacks to onlookers
Were talking about a hypothetical scenario in which these two meet in the wild, right?
Mega-theropods like T-rex, Giga, and Carcharo are not going to attack a fully grown African bush elephant. They are animals, not movie monsters.
It's too risky. T-rex usually avoids healthy adult Triceratops for the same reason.
Predators, especially solitary ones, will do everything they can to minimise the risk of injury.
I think they would go after a calf or a juvenile or sub-adult elephant.
But going after them won't be easy. Elephants travel in herds of up to 100. Female African elephants can grow large tusks. They will stand and fight.
Unlike triceratops, elephants are extremely intelligent. This means that they can form basic strategies to counter new threats relatively quickly.
Also, elephants have incredible hearing and will hear a large therapod coming from a mile away.
This gives them more time to either prepare for the encounter or avoid the threat all together.
>Bull elephant has a good chance of winning.
Shorter, stockier build with fours legs for pushing vs. uneven bipedal stance.
Also this^^
But what if they are in a cage fight?
But guys which one would have the biggest dick.
Bull elephant has a good chance of winning.
Shorter, stockier build with fours legs for pushing vs. uneven bipedal stance. The rex could maybe grab the back of the neck and work it down though. If those teeth work like a varanid's, it's gonna shred a lot of flesh really badly and maybe bleed the elephant out before the tusks can do major damage.
60/40 for T-rex.
>dino is bigger and has monster jaws
>elephant has more armor and stands on four limbs which makes it harder to knock over
probably the dinosaur but it would be close
trexs dont knock down their prey, they could, but its not necessary, theyre not a cat or dog thats smaller than their prey and need to drag it down, they just bite and rip, which makes no difference if the prey is standing or laying down
>dinosaur crunches through the elephant's skull in a quick bite
The human can just dodge roll around their feet and chip their health down with his fist
Dinosaur is an ugly creation of israelites, like them. Giants bones are modified to dinosaurs. Ugliest creation after democracy.
The T-rex would win because it's dense layer of feathers would protect it from the elephant's tusks.
That's Carcaradontosaurus
All dinosaurs had feathers you fricking chud
a more fair fight would be a herd of elephants versus a large theropod. Elephants can't take advantage of their strong suits in a 1v1 situation, its like asking who wins lion or tiger 1v1 but there is NEVER just one lion so its a bullshit, moronic comparison.
What can an elephant actually do though? If you hug its hind legs it can't reach you with its truck, and its too sluggish to get away while you repeatedly pommel it from behind. If you stand to the side of its hind legs then it won't even be able to hit you with a back kick. If it raises its leg to perform a stomp then all you have to do is back off until it finishes its slam, then move back in to continue punching.
Who do you think has the biggest dick?
do we know for certain that dinosaurs had wieners?
Name any male land mammal bigger than an ostrich that doesn't have a dick.
Most birds don't have dicks, though.
my moneys on Human Male
hes 5'10 therefore has a lot to prove and wont be backing down without giving it his all
even more so if he has a two inch dick
also his agility is invaluable. I'm sure he can dodge and weave between the clunky attacks of the larger more unwieldy enemies.
Literally me. But I'm 5'9.
this.
Another deceptive image, African bush elephants aren't that big
When will they learn?
6 tonnes is accurate for a bull
We've had this thread dozens of times now. Elephants are not capable of any meaningful self-defense against a predator so much larger than them and without having had any serious predators in their ecosystems for thousands of years.
And you have been wrong dozens of times now. Dinosaurs had fragile, hollow bones and quite a lot of his weight were in the tail. Elephant is all muscle, his skin is very thick and leathery, and not to mention sharp tusks. Sure he get injured during fighting but at the end charco must give up and look elsewhere for dinner.
Does the human male have a large caliber rifle or maybe a spear?
If he's unarmed, my guess is he's just going to run away as the animal specialized in killing 40-ton Sauropods bleeds the elephant over the course of a few hours before finally dispatching it.
Animals aren't stupid they don't have to see a peer or near pear predator more than once to know when to run away and when/how to fight. I do agree with you that it's very likely the Carcharodontosaurus would dispatch the elephant. but if elephants in the past could learn to live with near-peer predators then modern elephants could as well.
You are an idiot. Carcharodontosaur hunted animals that dwarfed elephants, animals that would have shattered bones with direct hits from their tails and legs, titanosaurs that beyond their enormous size had evolved large osteoderms and hip spikes to try and deal with predation.
>his skin is very thick and leathery
Elephant skin is not especially thick at all because it runs counter to the needs of thermoregulation. A Carchardontosaurus' tooth is both long enough and sharp enough to shred elephant hide without issue.
There is no way that a little guy like that takes down a sauropod. No way, not even im a group. Perhaps it scavenged or got a sick one. Predators rarely go for preys close to their own size, too much risk. Even wolves only sometimes get a moose that is already sick or something.
Most theropods punched far higher above their weight class than most modern animals though that's probably because there are so few giant megafaunal specialists left some lion prides hunt elephants, but with nothing like the regularity of Homotheriun hunting Steppe Mammoths. Velociraptor weighed 43lbs at max and hunted 250lb protoceratops. Deinonychus wieghed 160 and it hunted 1 ton tenotosaurs with tenotosaur bones haveing both post-mortem and healed over wounds from Deinonychus. There is evidence of Acrocanthosaurus, a similarly sized Carcharodontosaurid, trying and failing to hunt an adult Sauroposeidon which was an animal between 40 to 60 tons. Saurophaganax Maximus only had overlapping range with its smaller cousin Allosaurus where truely giant sauropods are found. Yes, you can argue for the incompleteness if the fossil record as being the cause, but ranges indicate that Saurophaganax was hunting bigger prey than Allosaurus. Then there is the matter of them living in mixed aged extended family groups which Mapusaurus and Giganotosaurus both are confirmed to have done which helps explain how a 6 to 10 ton animal could bring down a 40 ton animal.
The Carcharodontosaurus likely would not be alone either.
>elephant vs something that hunted things much bigger and more dangerous than elephants
Seems like a no-brainer answer to me.
This. It's not just comic book/cartoon type shit, theropods really were much more dangerous than some "experts" seem to think. Children unironically have it right here.
>Velociraptor weighed 43lbs at max and hunted 250lb protoceratops.
I have always been a fan of the theory that ceratopsians were incidentally or periodically carnivorous with a point being that the fossil featuring the protoceratops biting the velociraptor is actually an incidence of hunting behavior instead of self defense.
I remember there being a paleoart trend of drawing scavanger ceratopsians. Has there ever been evidence of this being the case? like stomach contents or coprolites?
they had a fricking beak. they ate anything they could
>Velociraptor weighed 43lbs at max and hunted 250lb protoceratops
>Deinonychus wieghed 160 and it hunted 1 ton tenotosaurs
Both are pack-hunters, 1v1 they're going to lose/flee.
>Saurophaganax
Every Saurophaganax fossil is an adult and every Allosaurus fossil is a subadult.
This is because Saurophaganax is just an adult Allosaurus. The differences are just ontogenetic changes associated with sexual maturity.
>there are still morons saying this stupid shit
Jesus Christ, Saurophaganax has completely different chevrons from Allosaurus, it's far more robustly built than any Allosaurus. Even the paper that synonymized jimmadseni and atrox made no attempt to synonymize Saurophaganax.
oh god, its the "elephants are invulnerable because they are intelligent" idiot from the last thread.
>Predators, especially solitary ones,
Numerous tyrannosaurids and Carcharodontodaurids like Daspletosaurus, Mapusaurus, and Giganotosaurus have evidence of pack behavior.
A tiger can kill a gaur
>Carcharodontosaur hunted animals that dwarfed elephants,
OP makes it seem like they're face to face at that range, so most predation tactics go out the window
The tusks are very similar to triceratops horns, so it wouldn't surprise me if the elephant wins. I guess it depends on how strong their necks are.
Tyrannosaurs killed and ate adult Triceratops. Elephants don’t expect 8 ton predators, Tyrannosaurs expect 10+ ton prey.
cut the crap. tyrannosaurus didn't fricking box triceratops but ambushed juveniles. the evidence shows a head on fight resulted in a gored tyrannosaurus
What if we give the elephants guns?