they are some slimy thing from before the time of man, leave them the frick alone, they aren't food, they aren't pets, they are unholy abominations that belong in the depths of the sea.
They seem overly optimistic about scaling up their operation of what looks like inbred moron octopus. All the reasons they give for their success in breeding octopus that don’t immediately kill each other appears to depend on maintaining a pretty narrow range of parameters, but maybe I only have that impression because they aren’t releasing much publicly.
I heard octopus females sometimes strangle the male, but also saw a video where they separated the male and female with a transparent barrier but left enough space for him to stick his reproductive tentacle through and deposit into the female. So maybe they do gloryhole octopus cages so that they dont kill each other
I look forward to cheap and readily available octopus. We farm pigs without people making a fuss in spite of their intelligent. You should able to farm other intelligent animals.
On one hand they are maybe too intelligent to eat ethically
On the other hand they only live for 2 years so cutting it short isn't really a big deal, all that intelligence and they don't even have time to finish college. Might as well eat them
Spain's government should be overthrown and replaced with a provisional government immediately banning octopus farms. We should not tolerate xenocidal abuse of intelligent creatures. Studying them should be non-invasive and do no harm.
In the western world and throughout east Asia people farm pigs and no one pitches shit about their intelligence making it unethical raise and eat them. There should be no double standards in regards to farming the less intelligent octopus. I'd argue it's more ethical to farm an intelligent animal that only lives a year or two than intelligent social mammals like pigs, but I shall continue to eat both.
I'm pretty sure kosher and halal prohibitions on pork has little to do with their intelligence and more to do with how they eat trash, dead things, and feces
I think they noticed how places where they eat lots of pork some diseases were common but not in places where they don’t so the conclusion is that animals that eat shit are unclean and they shouldn’t touch them. Dogs probably ended up grouped with pigs for the same reason.
I don't know if I'm a moron for having this opinion.
I think it's good, so maybe not as many octos get harvested from the sea. Sure the captive ones are shafted but the wild ones might catch a little break.
24 And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind.” And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.
26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”
27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.
28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”
>Oh yes I love eating octopi >BUT NOT LIKE THAT
How can you eat something if you give a single shit about whether or not it experiences an abstract sense of freedom it may not even be able to feel or respect its rights to anything
Everything I eat I despise.
And I would eat pitbulls too, but not a lab, and I would eat a politician if they didn't have kuru and residual DMT in their veins.
it's what happens when you think critically about life. why would you end it and consume it if you cared about its feelings? surely its most basic feeling is to continue its life?
Good, octopus is too expensive. They're not even truly sentient, if intelligence is the problem people gotta stop eating pigs too
ultimately people eat pigs because their intelligence is paired with an extremely selfish and antisocial nature. the social unit of the pig is several sows caring for their young otherwise they are cannibalistic and self serving. otherwise, they are as intelligent as non-moronic dogs with some communication skills swapped for quicker spatial reasoning.
Cattle, pig, and sheep remain contemporary insults for people who are mindless servants that just want to eat and sleep, or disgusting and undesirable creatures that offend all but themselves. Catty and b***h just mean a woman who fights back against male advances and "dog" means someone who works hard for someone else or gets away with immature behavior, and is an insult typically levied by a pig. Nobody eats foxes and being called a fox just means you're very smart, very attractive, and keep getting your way through trickery. Wolf refers to the dominant and ravenous and lion to powerful people who rule effortlessly.
But yeah, I don't think putting that many intelligent critters in one area is a good idea. It'll just take one figuring shit out and well, look at the orca thing.
Dog can also mean loyal and brave. cat can refer to reflexes and grace. Bull can be stubborn, or strong. Sheep often refer to mindlessness, but a ram is a symbol of unfettered dedication and capability. Chicken means coward but a mother hen is a good guardian.
Things can have more than one common meaning.
As someone who likes octopus I think this will probably have interesting results.
1. We will learn a lot about them by having a larger number on constant observation
2. These usually are solitary animals, what will happen when you raise a lot of them together? Will they kill each other? Kill themselves? Or maybe even start demonstrating social behavior?
3. How would they react to the handling? Do they understand that the ones removed and never returned died or is it just another octopus leaving the area for them? Do they even care about a fellow octopus?
You assume that this will be some high end, well funded, clean operation. When in reality these octopus will be badly treated, inbred, mass produced for profit. This isn't a research institute, it is a farm. And they are saying they will be producing a million octopus per year. Are there any regulations for octopus meat in the first place?
>on constant observation
It's not researchers who will manage those farms.
Factory farming never advanced ethological research in any way, the only things we can learn from it is that when animals are tortured they suffer and when they undergo extreme torture they suffer more.
If you want to raise animals you need to give proper conditions. If the animal is too stressed it will burn excess calories that could have been used to growing up instead, it will also be more likely to get sick and die resulting in loss of money. Let’s use chickens as an example since it is the classic factory farming animal. If the environment is too hot or the chicken is stressed it will increase its respiration rate, increase in respiration leads to loss of carbonate to the air as CO2, the egg shell is made of calcium carbonate and without carbonate deficiency the egg shells become thin and fragile resulting in fragile eggs that break by themselves or in transport resulting in loss of products and loss of profit. Therefore to increase their profit they need to keep a certain leve of comfort for the chickens. You might think they are in constant suffering every day all day but that isn’t true, if that were the case they wouldn’t produce eggs viable for commercialization meaning that all the money spent on them were wasted and gave zero return. All this is studied exactly because there is profit involved. They need to know more about the animal to increase the profit, if you put any idiot to raise the animals in any way they see it fit you will end with a bunch of dead animals and no profit. Just see how many people never manage to keep fish in an aquarium alive for more than a month. You need knowledge to raise animals, even more undomesticated animals and even more undomesticated aquatic animals. Octopus are trick creatures and probably over 99% of the fish keepers wouldn’t be able to keep them in the long term and there are many other challenges to overcome if you want to farm them, some already mentioned by
They will have to keep them sexually segregated because reproduction kills them. They're also escape artists that can fit through tiny openings and move around outside of water for a while. Farming them sounds like a huge pain in the ass because they're going to want to sneak into the opposite sex's tank.
>If the animal is too stressed it will burn excess calories that could have been used to growing up instead
Breeding them to get frickhuge whatever they do will fix this, just like with other livestock >be more likely to get sick and
Just do what other farms do and spam antibiotics. >Let’s use chickens as an example
and observe how they survived and laid fine in absolute horror conditions
They still aren’t immortal. Even people raising chickens in ideal conditions still can have sick chickens and antibiotics aren’t a panacea otherwise I could just take antibiotics everyday and never get sick. That is not what happens. Disease is a very serious issue specially in factory farms where population density is high. Any sick chicken could quickly spread it to all the others resulting in massive losses. Everything needs to be controlled and monitored and when some shit happens they need to track down what and why it happened and how to prevent it from happening again. If 100 000 animals suddenly die and your only answer is “lol shit happens” you will soon go broke because more animals will keep dying until you run out of money.
In early 1960s 100 000 healthy turkeys suddenly died in England by what was called unknown turkey “X” disease. They didn’t really know what it was at the time. Was it a new virus? Poisoned by saboteurs? It turns out that it was caused by Brazilian groundnut meal affected by Aspergillus flavus used in their feed. Under optimal weather conditions this fungi produces aflatoxins, in humans it lead to hepatic cancer but for turkeys it is lethal. This is how we discovered aflatoxins, your “lol, just give them antibiotics” would have fricked it up exponentially. Like any business farms need to keep track of what is going on, identify and solve any issues that show up.
>Disease is a very serious issue specially in factory farms
Exactly. That's why they sometimes get those desinfectant drive over things and almost sterile conditions. You have to avoid any bug getting in there if you don't want to slaughter the whole batch before their time. Antibiotics are needed mainly because otherwise the wounds from bad cages and hurting each other would get infected as soon as the shit clinging everywhere rubs in there. All other bugs have to be kept out.
I remember visiting a pretty small and traditional pig farm with less than 50 animals back as a kid. It wasn't that sterile (didnt have to suit up at least) but still overstuffed to a point where not all pigs could stand without touching each other at the same time and shit was everywhere on them since they couldn't trample it through the floor in time. Also two were laying dying on the hallway floor maybe to keep them somewhat alive and from getting eaten by the other pigs until the slaughter transport arrives.
thats not how any of this work, i suggest that you have a nice day now so the world isnt further blighter by your stupidity
Wait until you learn what they get fed and why it's now forbidden to feed cows the remains of dead cows in some places.
>Breeding them to get frickhuge whatever they do will fix this
it wont
> just like with other livestock
that now how it's works, animal welfare has huge impacts in the final product with all livestock
>Just do what other farms do and spam antibiotics.
again, not how it works and it's iligal to just spam it in most countries
>and observe how they survived and laid fine in absolute horror conditions
the conditions are designed to be kept as close to the ideal condition for them as possible, other wise you get die offs and massive monetary loses
The alternative is a million octopodes being removed from the wild, plus random bycatch. People aren't going to stop eating them just because you think they're neat.
As someone who likes octopus I think this will probably have interesting results.
1. We will learn a lot about them by having a larger number on constant observation
2. These usually are solitary animals, what will happen when you raise a lot of them together? Will they kill each other? Kill themselves? Or maybe even start demonstrating social behavior?
3. How would they react to the handling? Do they understand that the ones removed and never returned died or is it just another octopus leaving the area for them? Do they even care about a fellow octopus?
https://i.imgur.com/KQcSfvA.jpg
What is Wauf's take on this?
It will be run by the spanish, they can't even run a proper economy and government why trust them with basic animal breeding. Odds are it'll spawn a new virus.
They will have to keep them sexually segregated because reproduction kills them. They're also escape artists that can fit through tiny openings and move around outside of water for a while. Farming them sounds like a huge pain in the ass because they're going to want to sneak into the opposite sex's tank.
>on constant observation
It's not researchers who will manage those farms.
Factory farming never advanced ethological research in any way, the only things we can learn from it is that when animals are tortured they suffer and when they undergo extreme torture they suffer more.
who the frick looks into an octopus dead empty eyes and thinks, 'ah yes, this is an intelligent creature brimming with empathy'
honestly, you shouldn't eat them either.
they are some slimy thing from before the time of man, leave them the frick alone, they aren't food, they aren't pets, they are unholy abominations that belong in the depths of the sea.
This is going to be a pain in the ass to manage. Octopuses are sensitive as shit. Keeping them successfully on an industrial scale is a pipe dream.
>spain
Figures that europe's Black folk would come up with this abomination
good lucky keeping a million of these frickers in a single place
asiatic mentality, we already have enough food and enough luxury products this would be just gluttonous
They seem overly optimistic about scaling up their operation of what looks like inbred moron octopus. All the reasons they give for their success in breeding octopus that don’t immediately kill each other appears to depend on maintaining a pretty narrow range of parameters, but maybe I only have that impression because they aren’t releasing much publicly.
I want to see their breeding program.
Unrelated to them (I think) there is this study on cuttlefish reproduction https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fmars.2020.00112/full
I heard octopus females sometimes strangle the male, but also saw a video where they separated the male and female with a transparent barrier but left enough space for him to stick his reproductive tentacle through and deposit into the female. So maybe they do gloryhole octopus cages so that they dont kill each other
I look forward to cheap and readily available octopus. We farm pigs without people making a fuss in spite of their intelligent. You should able to farm other intelligent animals.
On one hand they are maybe too intelligent to eat ethically
On the other hand they only live for 2 years so cutting it short isn't really a big deal, all that intelligence and they don't even have time to finish college. Might as well eat them
Spain's government should be overthrown and replaced with a provisional government immediately banning octopus farms. We should not tolerate xenocidal abuse of intelligent creatures. Studying them should be non-invasive and do no harm.
In the western world and throughout east Asia people farm pigs and no one pitches shit about their intelligence making it unethical raise and eat them. There should be no double standards in regards to farming the less intelligent octopus. I'd argue it's more ethical to farm an intelligent animal that only lives a year or two than intelligent social mammals like pigs, but I shall continue to eat both.
I didnt think pigs were all that smart but I will look into it. I just thought muslims dont eat them because their holy book says so.
I'm pretty sure kosher and halal prohibitions on pork has little to do with their intelligence and more to do with how they eat trash, dead things, and feces
I think they noticed how places where they eat lots of pork some diseases were common but not in places where they don’t so the conclusion is that animals that eat shit are unclean and they shouldn’t touch them. Dogs probably ended up grouped with pigs for the same reason.
It's going to suck because all aquiculture makes the seafood taste like shitty mud. Octopi are delicious and I will keep devouring the wild ones.
>Spain
Better than china.
Fricking delicious.
They're good at problem solving but have poor memories and are complete sociopaths.
It sounds more ethical than factory farming pigs.
I don't know if I'm a moron for having this opinion.
I think it's good, so maybe not as many octos get harvested from the sea. Sure the captive ones are shafted but the wild ones might catch a little break.
24 And God said, “Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind.” And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.
26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”
27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.
28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”
No one cares about your hebrew just so story schizo
Very true
>NOOO DONT FARM THE SMART SUSHI
>mmmmm bacon
>mmmm porkchops
>mmm anti-dolphin tuna
>some palm oil would go great with this!
>bacon
>porkchops
No matter how smart pigs are (dumber than a collie anyways), they deserve it
Remove oink.
Good, octopus is too expensive. They're not even truly sentient, if intelligence is the problem people gotta stop eating pigs too
Did you just accidentaly arrive at the correct conclusion?
How do you know they aren't sentient?
>Oh yes I love eating octopi
>BUT NOT LIKE THAT
How can you eat something if you give a single shit about whether or not it experiences an abstract sense of freedom it may not even be able to feel or respect its rights to anything
Everything I eat I despise.
And I would eat pitbulls too, but not a lab, and I would eat a politician if they didn't have kuru and residual DMT in their veins.
>Everything I eat I despise.
Is this a meme here?
t. new Waufon
It’s certainly a very postmodern view. I can’t imagine hating something because I eat it, or being willing to hate something I eat.
it's what happens when you think critically about life. why would you end it and consume it if you cared about its feelings? surely its most basic feeling is to continue its life?
ultimately people eat pigs because their intelligence is paired with an extremely selfish and antisocial nature. the social unit of the pig is several sows caring for their young otherwise they are cannibalistic and self serving. otherwise, they are as intelligent as non-moronic dogs with some communication skills swapped for quicker spatial reasoning.
Is it?
Cattle, pig, and sheep remain contemporary insults for people who are mindless servants that just want to eat and sleep, or disgusting and undesirable creatures that offend all but themselves. Catty and b***h just mean a woman who fights back against male advances and "dog" means someone who works hard for someone else or gets away with immature behavior, and is an insult typically levied by a pig. Nobody eats foxes and being called a fox just means you're very smart, very attractive, and keep getting your way through trickery. Wolf refers to the dominant and ravenous and lion to powerful people who rule effortlessly.
Maybe, you are what you DON'T eat?
>Maybe you are what you don't eat
Can confirm
I'll never touch dog meat and I'm pretty husky
Dammit, Carlos.
But yeah, I don't think putting that many intelligent critters in one area is a good idea. It'll just take one figuring shit out and well, look at the orca thing.
Dog can also mean loyal and brave. cat can refer to reflexes and grace. Bull can be stubborn, or strong. Sheep often refer to mindlessness, but a ram is a symbol of unfettered dedication and capability. Chicken means coward but a mother hen is a good guardian.
Things can have more than one common meaning.
Would you eat the rich?
Yes, much better than eat the filthy and diseased poor.
I gave up eating pork following this logic. I don't like Chickens or Turkeys so eating them is easy. Still struggling with cows.
Cows deserve it but so does china
Too bad about the kuru thing
I don't like it.
Just farm fish.
how many tentacles did it take to type that out?
Up to 4, they use the other 4 for ambulating... Kinda
theyre actually the only other sentient things on this planet, they choose to live as animals yknow.
As someone who likes octopus I think this will probably have interesting results.
1. We will learn a lot about them by having a larger number on constant observation
2. These usually are solitary animals, what will happen when you raise a lot of them together? Will they kill each other? Kill themselves? Or maybe even start demonstrating social behavior?
3. How would they react to the handling? Do they understand that the ones removed and never returned died or is it just another octopus leaving the area for them? Do they even care about a fellow octopus?
You assume that this will be some high end, well funded, clean operation. When in reality these octopus will be badly treated, inbred, mass produced for profit. This isn't a research institute, it is a farm. And they are saying they will be producing a million octopus per year. Are there any regulations for octopus meat in the first place?
If you want to raise animals you need to give proper conditions. If the animal is too stressed it will burn excess calories that could have been used to growing up instead, it will also be more likely to get sick and die resulting in loss of money. Let’s use chickens as an example since it is the classic factory farming animal. If the environment is too hot or the chicken is stressed it will increase its respiration rate, increase in respiration leads to loss of carbonate to the air as CO2, the egg shell is made of calcium carbonate and without carbonate deficiency the egg shells become thin and fragile resulting in fragile eggs that break by themselves or in transport resulting in loss of products and loss of profit. Therefore to increase their profit they need to keep a certain leve of comfort for the chickens. You might think they are in constant suffering every day all day but that isn’t true, if that were the case they wouldn’t produce eggs viable for commercialization meaning that all the money spent on them were wasted and gave zero return. All this is studied exactly because there is profit involved. They need to know more about the animal to increase the profit, if you put any idiot to raise the animals in any way they see it fit you will end with a bunch of dead animals and no profit. Just see how many people never manage to keep fish in an aquarium alive for more than a month. You need knowledge to raise animals, even more undomesticated animals and even more undomesticated aquatic animals. Octopus are trick creatures and probably over 99% of the fish keepers wouldn’t be able to keep them in the long term and there are many other challenges to overcome if you want to farm them, some already mentioned by
>and with carbonate deficiency the egg shells become thin and fragile
Fixed a mistake.
>If the animal is too stressed it will burn excess calories that could have been used to growing up instead
Breeding them to get frickhuge whatever they do will fix this, just like with other livestock
>be more likely to get sick and
Just do what other farms do and spam antibiotics.
>Let’s use chickens as an example
and observe how they survived and laid fine in absolute horror conditions
They still aren’t immortal. Even people raising chickens in ideal conditions still can have sick chickens and antibiotics aren’t a panacea otherwise I could just take antibiotics everyday and never get sick. That is not what happens. Disease is a very serious issue specially in factory farms where population density is high. Any sick chicken could quickly spread it to all the others resulting in massive losses. Everything needs to be controlled and monitored and when some shit happens they need to track down what and why it happened and how to prevent it from happening again. If 100 000 animals suddenly die and your only answer is “lol shit happens” you will soon go broke because more animals will keep dying until you run out of money.
In early 1960s 100 000 healthy turkeys suddenly died in England by what was called unknown turkey “X” disease. They didn’t really know what it was at the time. Was it a new virus? Poisoned by saboteurs? It turns out that it was caused by Brazilian groundnut meal affected by Aspergillus flavus used in their feed. Under optimal weather conditions this fungi produces aflatoxins, in humans it lead to hepatic cancer but for turkeys it is lethal. This is how we discovered aflatoxins, your “lol, just give them antibiotics” would have fricked it up exponentially. Like any business farms need to keep track of what is going on, identify and solve any issues that show up.
>Disease is a very serious issue specially in factory farms
Exactly. That's why they sometimes get those desinfectant drive over things and almost sterile conditions. You have to avoid any bug getting in there if you don't want to slaughter the whole batch before their time. Antibiotics are needed mainly because otherwise the wounds from bad cages and hurting each other would get infected as soon as the shit clinging everywhere rubs in there. All other bugs have to be kept out.
I remember visiting a pretty small and traditional pig farm with less than 50 animals back as a kid. It wasn't that sterile (didnt have to suit up at least) but still overstuffed to a point where not all pigs could stand without touching each other at the same time and shit was everywhere on them since they couldn't trample it through the floor in time. Also two were laying dying on the hallway floor maybe to keep them somewhat alive and from getting eaten by the other pigs until the slaughter transport arrives.
Wait until you learn what they get fed and why it's now forbidden to feed cows the remains of dead cows in some places.
thats not how any of this work, i suggest that you have a nice day now so the world isnt further blighter by your stupidity
>Breeding them to get frickhuge whatever they do will fix this
it wont
> just like with other livestock
that now how it's works, animal welfare has huge impacts in the final product with all livestock
>Just do what other farms do and spam antibiotics.
again, not how it works and it's iligal to just spam it in most countries
>and observe how they survived and laid fine in absolute horror conditions
the conditions are designed to be kept as close to the ideal condition for them as possible, other wise you get die offs and massive monetary loses
this guy is really describing factory farms as "close to ideal conditions" lmao absolutely delusional
The alternative is a million octopodes being removed from the wild, plus random bycatch. People aren't going to stop eating them just because you think they're neat.
It will be run by the spanish, they can't even run a proper economy and government why trust them with basic animal breeding. Odds are it'll spawn a new virus.
> it will be run by the spanish
it will be run by Black folk in the canary islands, not that the spanish are much better
>Fail at every argument
>Immediately jump to polshit
Of course the petard and the poltard are the same guy.
Is there even enough demand for octopus meat to farm them on a large scale? Or is this a "traditional medicine" scam?
They will have to keep them sexually segregated because reproduction kills them. They're also escape artists that can fit through tiny openings and move around outside of water for a while. Farming them sounds like a huge pain in the ass because they're going to want to sneak into the opposite sex's tank.
>on constant observation
It's not researchers who will manage those farms.
Factory farming never advanced ethological research in any way, the only things we can learn from it is that when animals are tortured they suffer and when they undergo extreme torture they suffer more.
The proper plural is octopussies
Yummers can't wait.