Bears both take a long time to reach sexual maturity, and they're picky mates, which makes for a much more difficult domestication process. Most are not as picky as the Panda when it comes to mating conditions, but that kind of selectiveness is a common theme among bears. They're also very proud and intelligent animals, and its hard for them to understand why they should be obedient to what ammounts to a hairless bipedal cub they could tear apart in five seconds. So you have to use a lot of Pavolvian reinforcment to make it worth their while, showing them with treats they can't get in the wild. Its more like you're hiring a bear than taming it.
So that's why we have not, and likely never will, domesticate bears. They're neither submissive nor breedable.
>How have we not domesticated bears?
Since you specifically posted a black bear, I'll go into those exclusively.
It's mostly about logistics and time, I would guess. They reach sexually maturity at around four years old, which is extremely late compared to cattle (a year), dogs (10 months) and cats (6 months).
Secondly, their birth rate is very low, dropping a litter every other year compared to cows (one calf annually), and dogs and cats (two annually).
Next, they're generally solitary creatures. Not many common domesticated animals fall into that sort of lifestyle outside of cats. Without a need for a pack leader or herder role, humans would find true domestication of any species difficult.
Finally, they're huge, carnivorous and not easily intimidated, meaning human mastery would be a difficult thing to get through to them.
I would guess that their hibernation cycles don't lend themselves to an easy task here, either.
Anyone wanna chime in with any corrections or expansions?
Domesticating takes thousands of years.
All species have been tried. People have been going back in time and domesticating all species one after the other. The ones that remain are the best ones/easiest to domesticate, like dogs
Well it'd take several thousand years at least. So he's kinda right. We would only be able to tame them because our generation won't end up being the one that ultimately has domesticated bears.
>Russia is way ahead of us and has had domesticated bear calvary for centuries.
Have you not heard of Voytek? >Adopted by Polish soldiers as a cub >Enlisted in the British Army >Hunted Nazi spies >Worked artillery at the battle for Monte Cassino >Retired to Scotland >Spent the remainder of his days smoking and drinking with his old squad-mates
https://www.badassoftheweek.com/voytek
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wojtek_(bear)
>The bear would sit around the campfire with the men, eating, drinking, and sleeping in tents with the rest of the soldiers. The bear loved smoking cigarettes, drank beer right out of the bottle like a regular infantryman, and got a kick out of wrestling and play-fighting with the other soldiers. Of course, he was the most badass asskicking wrester in the entire company, thanks in part to the fact that he grew to be six feet tall, weighed roughly five hundred pounds, and could knock small trees over with a single swing of his massive, clawed paw. He grew to be a part of the unit, improving the morale of men who had spent several years getting their asses kicked in slave labor camps, and was treated as though he were just another hard-drinkin’, hard-smoking’, hard-fightin’, hair-growin’ soldier in the Company. When the unit marched out on a mission, Voytek would stand up on his hind legs and march alongside them. When the motorized convoy was on the move, Voytek sat in the passenger seat of one of the jeeps, hanging his head out the window and shocking the shit out of people walking down the street.
This dude needs a movie!
The fox domestication program shows otherwise. It can take mere decades to select for the right behavioral traits once serious effort is put in.
The real obstacles to domestication are whether the genes for it lie dormant in the species to begin with, and if humans consider it worth the effort.
>How have we not domesticated bears?
Since you specifically posted a black bear, I'll go into those exclusively.
It's mostly about logistics and time, I would guess. They reach sexually maturity at around four years old, which is extremely late compared to cattle (a year), dogs (10 months) and cats (6 months).
Secondly, their birth rate is very low, dropping a litter every other year compared to cows (one calf annually), and dogs and cats (two annually).
Next, they're generally solitary creatures. Not many common domesticated animals fall into that sort of lifestyle outside of cats. Without a need for a pack leader or herder role, humans would find true domestication of any species difficult.
Finally, they're huge, carnivorous and not easily intimidated, meaning human mastery would be a difficult thing to get through to them.
I would guess that their hibernation cycles don't lend themselves to an easy task here, either.
Anyone wanna chime in with any corrections or expansions?
Bears only give birth every other year and to a relatively small litter of two or three cubs
Foxes give birth annually to a litter that can number as many as a dozen kits.
With just one breeding pair, by year two, you could have as many as twenty six foxes on your hands but only five bears.
With such a small pool for selection, it would absolutely take decades if not centuries to breed bears for domestication
Well it'd take several thousand years at least. So he's kinda right. We would only be able to tame them because our generation won't end up being the one that ultimately has domesticated bears.
A lot of domesticated animals have shorter live spans and therefore we can selectively breed much faster for said desired traits in our own life time. Compare that to many tameable animals that mostly have longer lifespans and don't spawn babies as fast as a chicken.
Bears are smarter than dogs. Zoologists liken their intelligence to the more advanced great apes, like orangutans, and gorillas. Tamed bears are known for their ability to problem solve and do complex tricks, some particularly smart bears have been observed using imorovised tools.
You actually don't want a domesticated animal to be too intelligent, as highly intelligent animals need a lot of engagement and rewards/punishment to remain obedient. Dogs are in the perfect range of intelligence, smart enough to take orders, but not so smart that they're constantly pushing boundaries.
Bears both take a long time to reach sexual maturity, and they're picky mates, which makes for a much more difficult domestication process. Most are not as picky as the Panda when it comes to mating conditions, but that kind of selectiveness is a common theme among bears. They're also very proud and intelligent animals, and its hard for them to understand why they should be obedient to what ammounts to a hairless bipedal cub they could tear apart in five seconds. So you have to use a lot of Pavolvian reinforcment to make it worth their while, showing them with treats they can't get in the wild. Its more like you're hiring a bear than taming it.
So that's why we have not, and likely never will, domesticate bears. They're neither submissive nor breedable.
>How have we not domesticated bears?
Since you specifically posted a black bear, I'll go into those exclusively.
It's mostly about logistics and time, I would guess. They reach sexually maturity at around four years old, which is extremely late compared to cattle (a year), dogs (10 months) and cats (6 months).
Secondly, their birth rate is very low, dropping a litter every other year compared to cows (one calf annually), and dogs and cats (two annually).
Next, they're generally solitary creatures. Not many common domesticated animals fall into that sort of lifestyle outside of cats. Without a need for a pack leader or herder role, humans would find true domestication of any species difficult.
Finally, they're huge, carnivorous and not easily intimidated, meaning human mastery would be a difficult thing to get through to them.
I would guess that their hibernation cycles don't lend themselves to an easy task here, either.
Anyone wanna chime in with any corrections or expansions?
Domesticating takes thousands of years.
All species have been tried. People have been going back in time and domesticating all species one after the other. The ones that remain are the best ones/easiest to domesticate, like dogs
We can tame them, not domesticate. What makes you think we can domesticate them?
What makes you think a tameable animal can't be further selected for desired traits and behavior until domestication has been achieved.
Well it'd take several thousand years at least. So he's kinda right. We would only be able to tame them because our generation won't end up being the one that ultimately has domesticated bears.
Fortunately russia is way ahead of us and has had domesticated bear calvary for centuries.
>Russia is way ahead of us and has had domesticated bear calvary for centuries.
Have you not heard of Voytek?
>Adopted by Polish soldiers as a cub
>Enlisted in the British Army
>Hunted Nazi spies
>Worked artillery at the battle for Monte Cassino
>Retired to Scotland
>Spent the remainder of his days smoking and drinking with his old squad-mates
https://www.badassoftheweek.com/voytek
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wojtek_(bear)
>The bear would sit around the campfire with the men, eating, drinking, and sleeping in tents with the rest of the soldiers. The bear loved smoking cigarettes, drank beer right out of the bottle like a regular infantryman, and got a kick out of wrestling and play-fighting with the other soldiers. Of course, he was the most badass asskicking wrester in the entire company, thanks in part to the fact that he grew to be six feet tall, weighed roughly five hundred pounds, and could knock small trees over with a single swing of his massive, clawed paw. He grew to be a part of the unit, improving the morale of men who had spent several years getting their asses kicked in slave labor camps, and was treated as though he were just another hard-drinkin’, hard-smoking’, hard-fightin’, hair-growin’ soldier in the Company. When the unit marched out on a mission, Voytek would stand up on his hind legs and march alongside them. When the motorized convoy was on the move, Voytek sat in the passenger seat of one of the jeeps, hanging his head out the window and shocking the shit out of people walking down the street.
This dude needs a movie!
Well now. I never expected to see my cousins hometown mentioned on Wauf.
Now the other Anon, but yes. I know Smit Wojtek.
The fox domestication program shows otherwise. It can take mere decades to select for the right behavioral traits once serious effort is put in.
The real obstacles to domestication are whether the genes for it lie dormant in the species to begin with, and if humans consider it worth the effort.
You have a fundamental misunderstanding here. See
Bears only give birth every other year and to a relatively small litter of two or three cubs
Foxes give birth annually to a litter that can number as many as a dozen kits.
With just one breeding pair, by year two, you could have as many as twenty six foxes on your hands but only five bears.
With such a small pool for selection, it would absolutely take decades if not centuries to breed bears for domestication
A lot of domesticated animals have shorter live spans and therefore we can selectively breed much faster for said desired traits in our own life time. Compare that to many tameable animals that mostly have longer lifespans and don't spawn babies as fast as a chicken.
they are basically big dogs
>basically
but they're dumber than dirt
a dog is 5x smarter than a domestic cat, and bears have less neurons than a domestic cat
>a dog is 5x smarter than a domestic cat
Buttsniffer cope
Cats are buttlickers though
Bears are smarter than dogs. Zoologists liken their intelligence to the more advanced great apes, like orangutans, and gorillas. Tamed bears are known for their ability to problem solve and do complex tricks, some particularly smart bears have been observed using imorovised tools.
You actually don't want a domesticated animal to be too intelligent, as highly intelligent animals need a lot of engagement and rewards/punishment to remain obedient. Dogs are in the perfect range of intelligence, smart enough to take orders, but not so smart that they're constantly pushing boundaries.
>Wojtek was only 183cm
lol
Look at all those manlets.