Has anyone else noticed that it feels like more and more food items are rotting or dying when you try to homegrown it from either scrap or seed? It feels like food is being designed or plucked at such a stage that it is not only nutritionally null, but also so when attempts to home grow happen, they simply never germinate or grow to a point then just die? I tried to sprout some beans the other day and out of fifty some odd only one has managed to germinate and this was with a sprouter of mine.
How crazy are these people acting reactionary for probably 1% of the population that hobby grows food?
No. 1: Yes, corporations are fricking you in the ass every day of your life.
No. 2: No, they are not doing this by breeding or genetically modifying crops so that you can't grow them from seed. Corporations lose approximately zero dollars from people growing food crops from the seeds of fruits they have bought in the supermarket. It is not worth it to them to spend millions upon millions of dollars developing infertile crops so that some random shut-in on Wauf can't grow a capsicum. Especially since you can buy whole packets of seeds for anything you want for a dollar or two anyway.
No. 3: When it comes to seedless watermelons, grapes, citrus, etc, this is driven entirely by consumer preference for seedless fruit. It's not a conspiracy to stop you growing your own. You can still get fruit that has seeds in it.
No. 4: It's not worth growing citrus or avocado trees from seed. All commercial citrus and avocado trees, both for industry and for the retail consumer, are grafted on to the rootstock of a more sturdy species. Seed-grown citrus and avocados are weak and get fricked by pests and diseases. You need grafted plants.
This is true for citrus, but not avocados.
t. citrus and avocado grower
Ah, so nematodes don't frick your American avocados like they do the Australian ones. Cool.
>Darien Gap
Yeah, even back in the '90s when it was fairly safe and loads of fun to backpack through Mexico and Central America (if you weren't completely stupid) the Darien Gap was sketchy as hell.
It was better just to fly from Costa Rica or Panama to a Colombian Caribbean island like San Andres and go into Colombia from there. Good times!
Pic related: Escobar's singing hippos.
> It was better just to fly from Costa Rica or Panama to a Colombian Caribbean island like San Andres and go into Colombia from there. Good times!
Or just stay in CR/Panama too. Beautiful places and fairly safe (for Latin American standards)
I like knowing that there are places that are still wild, people can choose to not go in there, but it's there if they want to accept the risks. I wonder if its feasible to build a bridge on the North side of the gap, over the waters, but it's probably better bang for buck and for the environment to just maintain a ferry service that takes the trucks from one side of the gap to another.
last time I checked, they only ferry between panama and colombia was out of service. only container freight. theres some smaller ships that can bring you backpacking or with a motorbike.
its not impossible to build a road connection, there's just a lot of political interest to keep north and south america disconnected.
theres also several trekking paths through there that thousands of people walk through to get to the US. naturally they leave all of their trash and the occasional corpse behind.
Damn, I guess the Darien Gap is wild the way Mount Everest is now. I just want there to be a place with no people that I can imagine living in, even if I can never reach there, I just want it to exist.
>I wonder if its feasible to build a bridge on the North side of the gap,
Sure. Go ahead and build a 100km bridge across swamps and jungles that are owned by crocodiles, drug cartels, and a murderous communist guerilla army.
Now that you mention it, it's crazy that nobody has ever done that before...
>even back in the '90s when it was fairly safe and loads of fun to backpack through Mexico and Central America
I can’t even imagine that, you would almost certainly get robbed somewhere along the way if you attempted that today
Like the other poster(s) said, the myriad of murderous groups that use the place as a hideout on top of the deadly wildlife inherently make that a bad idea
I grow both clementine and avocado from seed for the leaves, and the way it looks. Clementine leaves can be steeped for clementine flavour tea, very fragrant, but the leaves are soo slow growing.
I killed tons of plants before I realized I had something bad in my water. I think it was copper from my pipes, because in my aquariums, most invertabrates would die within a day of adding. Copper is poisonous to them and most plants. I got an reverse osmosis system and since using that water I have had no issues with inverts. Don't know about plants yet because I haven't got them yet.
thats why I said practically. in practice you can walk from patagonia to north canada, them being classified as separate continents doesnt matter
i think i remember seeing a youtuber try to do this a couple years ago on a motorcycle and apparently there's no roads into SA from panama and he had to get a ferry.
yeah, the americas connected by land but theres no road over the darien gap. thick forest with no resources, lots of indigenous groups, and diseases like dengue and malaria tends to impede construction. there's a bridge over the panama canal though.
Don’t forget the literal armed militia groups that will kill/rape you and the other deadly animals around, they also just won’t build one because of ‘environmental concerns’ too
calm down incel
What are you on about moron
>literal armed militia groups that will kill/rape you and the other deadly animals around
fabrications of your incel collective
… The FARC operates in the Darien Gap to traffic drugs and will kill anyone they suspect of being a spy or agent if they come across them.
>https://insightcrime.org/panama-organized-crime-news/farc-57th-front-in-panama/
Are you fricked in the head? What is wrong with you?
xhe hasn’t dilated for the day and is quite cranky please forgive xher
FARC is a political group, you are thinking of the cia's drug cartels
No, that’s not what the article (or anything else) says at all
How does that make him an incel?
i mean, cutting a gap into a forest and paving over it probably isnt too good for wildlife.
Sure, I didn’t say otherwise
I've seen the horror film Indigenous (2014) that was set in the Darien Gap, kinda meh because of the long prologue but okay gore. wiki said it was shot location in a Panama Jungle but not rather or not it was the Darien Gap I think it's cool this piece of wilderness exist, and hey, in a zombie apocalypse you can still walk through the jungle, it'll be relatively safer...
Gardening is dependent on so many factors its probably difficult to prove what you're saying. But its likely true that the seeds from market bought food are shit because transgenics. I still was able to grow tomatoes last summer from a pack of seeds.
Of you can go by foot from one place to another, it's the same landmass.
Therefore earth has the following continents :
America*, Eurasiafrica**, Oceania, Antarctica.
*unless you count the panama canal as dividing north and south
**unless you count suez canal as dividing Africa and Asia
But you really shouldn't count waterways because it will lead you to have shit like mainland France, Panama itself, Egypt... being on two different landmasses.
>The Sanskrit text Rig Veda often dated 1500 BCE has the earliest mention of seven continents in the Earth, the text claims that the Earth has seven continents and Lord Vishnu Measured the entire universe from his first foot from the land of Earth which has 7 continents.
Sorry moron, Lord Vishnu already settled this ~3,500 years ago.
Being full of shit truly is an indian thing since ancient times.
>How crazy are these people acting reactionary for probably 1% of the population that hobby grows food?
Even that 1% is threatening, they don't want people to even remember how to be self-reliant and being able to "pirate" from the store is an anathema to them, soon you won't be able to grow anything commercial and they will spread those modded foodstuffs into the wild to make sure you cannot obtain normal seeds anymore.
It has already happened but it will get worse, far far worse.
First they took away the water when people moved from small farm to suburbs, and growing all your own food would be difficult, but you can still have fresh veggies. Increasingly people are being crammed into apartments that don't even have balconies, that are so close together that there is no direct sunlight, but it will be hot due to the cement heat island effect, so now they have to pay for air, for cool air, for filtered air, as well as water and light.
For me, is seeds disappearing, first all the watermelon with seeds disappeared, now all the grapes, and I actually like eating grapes with seeds. None of the oranges I've eaten recently have seeds. Though the clementines from South America I got last year and earlier this year have some seeds -- the ones from Morocco, Israel, and South Africa have no seeds, and taste nasty, increasingly there are no more South American clementines even though I'm in Toronto, Canada, so same continent.
Avocado used to sprout easily in water, but not anymore, could be my new apartment is cold and dark, one did sprout on soil after such a long time I forgot about it -- I think it's because avocados are kept in the fridge longer now.
Apple seeds constantly sprouting easily, thought out of twelve I got two that has mold, these are Farmer's Market apples I had in the fridge forever, apples sprout easier if you keep them in the fridge for a while first, then have it out for a few days, what's best is if they are already sprouting inside the apple if you are taking it out, cut carefully.
There used to be thai basils everywhere, finding it harder to get it now, maybe it's because I'm downtown now, Harvest Wagon has these, and taragorn, soaking in water. They wouldn't sprout at first and some started to rot, then I cut all the flowers off and several inches off the bottom of the stem, kept a light over them, changed water with warm water every day -- and it sprouted. When I grew basils in a garden, tehse root within a day or two after I cut them -- but the ones in supermarket aren't that fresh so they don't grow with vigor. Basils, citrus, and avocado are all warm weather crops, so they don't do as well with being in the cold compared to apples.
Sweet Pepper, I scattered a bunch of seeds on top of my existing herb pot, nothing sprouted so far, but the one I actually stuck in a peat moss pellet kept soaking for hours did sprout.
Onion and garlic sprouting fine.
>South America
>Canada
>same continent
yes the americas are practically a single land mass, you USAian
South American fruits are trucked up here, whereas from Israel or South Africa they are definitely flown, either flying dehydrate the fruit and made it taste weird ...or it's because it's grown in a desert climate? Either way, South American clementine is the best. I just tried some Mandarin from Turkey that was nice too, but none had seeds.
I actually work in agro, and yeah this is pretty common across the industry.
A few years ago one of the region directors came to our office and laid out a new process that would prevent our potatoes from successfully sprouting without our 11 herbs and spices being present in the soil. I remember someone asked whether it was about toxic compounds or premature sprouting in stores, but the director just told him to go home for the day.
It's gotten a bit more sophisticated in recent years, though.
More "off switch" genes have been identified in various crops that just disable germination after one generation, so companies don't have to bother with complicated and expensive processes to prevent customers from being able to grow their own produce.
My guess is that within the next few years, basically none of the produce you can buy in the store will be able to produce offspring.
IMO you can really only get a good garden started using noncorporate seeds and starters ordered online from specialty organic sellers and overseas growers.
>A few years ago one of the region directors came to our office and laid out a new process that would prevent our potatoes from successfully sprouting without our 11 herbs and spices being present in the soil.
MY FRICKING SIDES
that dog doesn’t signify laughing btw
I have seen it used for both contexts. It is very versatile.
He hurt it's sides and it's very painful
>My guess is that within the next few years, basically none of the produce you can buy in the store will be able to produce offspring.
>IMO you can really only get a good garden started using noncorporate seeds and starters ordered online from specialty organic sellers and overseas growers.
This is nightmarish, what are the chances that noncorp seeds end up disappearing from the face of the earth? If that scenario becomes real the slightest societal collapse could bring a good ten thousand years of famine until natural selection picks up again.
when you put it like that this does sound concerning…
It sounds plausible until you consider that the edible plants we have today come from wild relatives that were genetically engineered in a primitive fashion. It would take a near outright systemic genocide of all plant life in order to leave only corporate seeds; and even then they would likely have to leave the Earth bare as it wouldn't make sense to plant free food that disappears in a single generation; or somehow manages to reproduce which puts them back where they started. Even then- in a complete nightmare where all plant life has been reduced to corporate farms; there's still a good chance of salvaging some viable crops to reestablish.
I posted this
to frick with you. OP is just a moron.
The real "anti-germination" shit is on the corpo side. Farmers will buy shitloads of a specific breed of crop, but then some other breed from a nearby farm will cross-pollinate their fields and risk ruining it, so they push for ways to make modified crops much harder to spread and grow outside of the specific field it's supposed to be in. Organic farmers especially get assmad when their neighbor's Corn_v1.33pre1 is too prolific.
There's also the patent enforcement side of this, intended to force farms to buy seeds only from the creator of the breed, instead of selling the seeds once and everyone else selling their own seeds the very next season. Bioengineering new shit is stupidly expensive, and patents expire anyway, so I don't think this is such a big deal.
Unless Tomato 2 comes out and it makes Tomato 1 completely worthless, regular ass seeds for hobby growers and run-of-the-mill farms aren't going away. No one is spending tens to hundreds of millions of dollars to frick over the 0.01% of retail customers who replant produce.
If anything, it would be the produce growers and retail stores who'd do that, not the industry of literally selling seeds.
They already made it illegal to sell non-loicensed seeds commercially in many places. Loicensing means you've got to get a variety approved by a beaurocratic panel and meet certain standards, like uniformity of plants, stability of traits in offspring and it takes many years of breeding and thousands to pay for it.
So basically all old heritage varieties are practically outlawed if you want to make any kind of money with it.
They are increasingly trying to also outlaw people saving and trading their own seeds, so that any and all people growing anything at all have to get their seeds from a store with loicensed varieties. They haven't succeeded with that one anywhere yet afaik, but they are certainly pushing for it. We have already lost more than 90% of the varieties of cultured plants that have been around only 100 years ago.
Agrochemical cooperations are pure evil and declared war on life itself.
I think the bigger Anti-Homegrown issue is that more and more people are not only landless, but are boxed into skycells with no sunlight because everything is closely build together with no green space around. The apartments from the 70s were big, windows in every room, often balcony...and surrounded by green space, almost every apartment I knew in the Parklawn and Lakeshore area which was built up around the 50s to 70s have lawns with trees on it, front and back, mulberry trees for birds. Many of the balconies grow tomatoes. So even the convenience stores sell tomato saplings in spring. The grocery store veggies are fresher because they are competing with home grown. ...and also, usually this board is super slow so we have tons of posts from months ago, and posts only get bump off post bump limit, but this month, we have so much more posts, spring time?
hey man you gotta grow your own, esp tomatoes. they put little ghosts in them. God only knows why.
One thing I noticed pretty quickly when I started growing my own food is how the food industry pushes shelf life to the max. Something like a banana or a mango spoils fast, but you can get them at the store just fine. Meanwhile, potatoes, onions, and garlic last for fricking ever when I grow them, but the ones from the store seem to go bad almost as fast as fruits.
Basically everything you buy isn’t purposely treated to make it harder for you to grow, it’s just shit quality and very old.
Aside from that, certain things like beans are literally poisoned so the plant dies to make drying more reliable, which is fricking insane. Not surprising that a plant poisoned to death doesn’t produce reliable seeds
>Something like a banana or a mango spoils fast, but you can get them at the store just fine.
Because they're picked while under-ripe and then that process is suspended, usually by keeping them cool and/or with gases. Once bananas are picked they're boxed and palletized and shipped to a port the same day (or stored in a refrigerated warehouse if that's not feasible), repacked into reefer containers in a reduced-oxygen environment at the port (generally very close to the plantations), shipped out ASAP and then the reefer containers are trucked to a distributor, the distributor packs them onto reefer trucks for transport to the point of sale and then the local grocery store might keep them cool in the back if they don't want to put them out yet. Bananas are srs bizness.
>Meanwhile, potatoes, onions, and garlic last for fricking ever when I grow them, but the ones from the store seem to go bad almost as fast as fruits.
Yeah, because they're seasonal and generally pretty old by the time you get to them. If you were on the farm where those potatoes were grown and stored them under ideal conditions then they'd last just as long as when you do that at home. Grocery store potatoes might be coming up on a year out of the ground by the time you finally take them home and eat them and almost as long for carrots.
used to work at a grocery store, this homie is right on the money with fruit. Also, yes, when you get fruit from the store it is ripe. This is because we literally bin, burn, or destroy the fruit which isn't. Mate of mine got fired for being caught giving the fruit to the Ciggie Hobo.
I hate the big bag of Farmer's Market Onions or Carrots sold by Loblaws or No Frills because they are ancient and taste as such, the carrot tops are yellow. Other stores though, Longo, Sobeys, especially Farm Boy, or even smaller grocery stores, Chinese stores, the carrot tops are still green, the onions are still fresh enough to sprout -- the Farm Boy onion are too old to sprout, they just go bad. I also find that in optimal condition, outdoors in cool spring in soil, onion bottoms will root again, but otherwise, rather than cutting of the bottom, I cut away the outer layers for cooking, and save the center, top to bottom, to sprout.
I know they treat ginger so it doesn't sprout in the store. But I've been rooting some store-bought scallions just fine.
Hn, I used to pick out the gingers that are sprouting to stick in my garden, but I noticed that they aren't sprouting anymore and i thought people were just buying it sooner.
I planted tomato seeds from Mucci into my clay bowl a few days ago, and it's sprouting.
Plants are giving you skitzo thoughts again
>Has anyone else noticed that it feels like more and more food items are rotting or dying when you try to homegrown it from either scrap or seed?
Wtf are you talking abo-
>I tried to sprout some beans the other day and out of fifty some odd only one has managed to germinate and this was with a sprouter of mine.
Ohhhhhhh. You are just a shit gardener.