which animals are surprisingly intelligent? so no elephants, chimpansee and dolphins.
which animals are surprisingly intelligent? so no elephants, chimpansee and dolphins.
which animals are surprisingly intelligent? so no elephants, chimpansee and dolphins.
Seaguls have to be pretty smart. They fly around in groups like crows do.
some ants have been known to pass the mirror test
the mirror test is hot bullshit and makes many, many assumptions
what this actually is, is pantomiming grooming behavior to direct a conspecific to remove contaminants. this is communication behavior, not self recognition.
i'll give you self recognition by sticking my foot so far up your arse you'll pass the mirror test
Shhh, only dreams now.
How smart are humans compared to animals really? Isn't pretty much everything we can do down to the ability of the few exceptional outliers like Newton being able to write down and share their achievements?
If a group of current day humans were wiped of their memories and placed on another planet, how many generations would it be before they stopped living like animals?
If orcas lived on land with a more ape-like body, would they be developing tools?
Clownfish and pufferfish are fairly easy to train.
The issue with determining a lot of animal intelligence is essentially Dunning Kreuger; there's a big valley of animals where we don't know if they're just stupid or willfully ignoring testing rewards and etc., and then we also don't know how to distinguish between those that don't cooperate because of decisionmaking vs those that don't because of instinct.
We just lack the reliable tools to deal with animals in that middle valley of our testing experience.
Humans: dogs must be stupid because they eat fresh, recently digested food that doesn't contain any bacteria that harm them and is rich in easily digestible nutrients due to already taking one trip through an intestine
Also humans: Is that months old rotten cabbage that's mostly bacteria shit by now? Das poggers! I can't help myself from warming it up and eating it with aged corpses that have been ground up and stuffed into intestines before sitting, drying out, and decomposing for even longer!
>dogs must be stupid
they are though
Fuck off retard
Some ants are self aware (pass mirror test) and do "large" scale farming (including keeping other animls for food)
Dikkop birds watch crocodile eggs when they hunt and chirp to warn the crocodiles if the eggs are in danger
aquatic life that visit cleaning stations (reefs with cleaner fish like wrasses) are noted to be higher IQ, because they can resist their instincts to consoom and get their parasites eaten off + a pleasing massage. Wrasses pass the mirror test and are known to "cheat" i.e., eat pieces of flesh...but the customers don't seem to mind.
>At the center of the story is Vladimir Markov, a poacher who met a grisly end in the winter of 1997 after he shot and wounded a tiger, and then stole part of the tiger's kill.
>The injured tiger hunted Markov down in a way that appears to be chillingly premeditated. The tiger staked out Markov's cabin, systematically destroyed anything that had Markov's scent on it, and then waited by the front door for Markov to come home.
>"This wasn't an impulsive response," Vaillant says. "The tiger was able to hold this idea over a period of time." The animal waited for 12 to 48 hours before attacking.
>When Markov finally appeared, the tiger killed him, dragged him into the bush and ate him. "The eating may have been secondary," Vaillant explains. "I think he killed him because he had a bone to pick."
Crocodilians, monitor lizards, and king cobras are all the heavy lifting intellectual champions of the reptile world. It's well-stated how intelligent crocodilians are, but monitor lizards are also very crafty. King cobras aren't on the same level, but they definitely think faster and respond to situations faster than other snakes.
The fact that you can read this sentence makes me spiral into a THC-like trance of wondering how the fuck any of this was possible from an evolutionary perspective.
I acknowledge that many of what the species homo has once believed to be unique to "us" are actually present in many clades up to and including language and the passing down of knowledge. "We" conduct experiments using MRI to understand the complexities of the brains of other genera to see what is and isn't activating. "We" are not unique. But aren't "we?"
Is there any or will there be any future study/ies which precisely and completely map out what level of understanding, awareness, comprehension (however you want to put it) of other genera? What drove "us" to "consciousness?" Did/do all species of homo actually comprehend their condition? What is the threshold of such an evolutionary quirk taking place, and why would it come about? What other genera if any have comprehension of their condition to even a fraction of a degree to "our" own?
What is the real truth of homo and "our" seemingly exceptional understanding of awareness? What is the truth of "our" evolution?
Because, to be very honest with you, as someone who autodidactically has studied biology, taxonomy, ecology for many years, something is really not adding up. Particularly, it seems to me, that there is a huge gap between "ourselves" and every other genus on the planet.
"Oh yeah so in a geologically very short period of time there was homo from an ancient ape branch. And all of them came from one region of the Congo. And other homo species were around that are also from the Congo but left sooner and migrated so they were different like some were stout and some were broad shouldered and some were really close to 'us' but got outbred. And then suddenly let's say idk 300,000 years is how long 'we've' really been around heh"
This does not, to my knowledge, coalesce with the evolutionary trajectory of any other animal.
>What drove "us" to "consciousness?
the entire existence of our lineage did it, conscience became more and more clear as our abstract intelligence grew over uncountable generations ever since we stopped living on trees
This
The development 9f consciousness was akin to waking from a dream or stupor over hundreds of thousands of years and countless biological generations
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_white_shark#Diet
>In 2020, marine biologists Sasha Dines and Enrico Gennari published a documented incident in the journal Marine and Freshwater Research of a group of great white sharks exhibiting pack-like behaviour, successfully attacking and killing a live juvenile 7 m (23 ft) humpback whale. The sharks utilized the classic attack strategy used on pinnipeds when attacking the whale, even utilizing the bite-and-spit tactic they employ on smaller prey items.
>A second incident regarding great white sharks killing humpback whales involving a single large female great white nicknamed Helen was documented off the coast of South Africa. Working alone, the shark attacked a 33 ft (10 m) emaciated and entangled humpback whale by attacking the whale's tail to cripple it before she managed to drown the whale by biting onto its head and pulling it underwater. The attack was witnessed via aerial drone by marine biologist Ryan Johnson, who said the attack went on for roughly 50 minutes before the shark successfully killed the whale. Johnson suggested that the shark may have strategized its attack in order to kill such a large animal.
Pet scorpion has been blowing my mind lately. The predation is so cool. You don't expect a "bug" to be so intelligent.
Crocodiles, especially Cuban Crocodiles, are crafty little fuckers. I’d argue they’re smarter than actual Cubans.
Alex the African grey parrot
>Pepperberg did not claim that Alex could use "language", instead saying that he used a two-way communications code.[14] Listing Alex's accomplishments in 1999, Pepperberg said he could identify 50 different objects and recognize quantities up to six; that he could distinguish seven colors and five shapes, and understand the concepts of "bigger", "smaller", "same", and "different", and that he was learning "over" and "under".[2] Alex passed increasingly difficult tests measuring whether humans have achieved Piaget's Substage 6 object permanence. Alex showed surprise and anger when confronted with a nonexistent object or one different from what he had been led to believe was hidden during the tests.
>Alex had a vocabulary of over 100 words,[16] but was exceptional in that he appeared to have understanding of what he said. For example, when Alex was shown an object and asked about its shape, color, or material, he could label it correctly.[14] He could describe a key as a key no matter what its size or color, and could determine how the key was different from others.[7]
>Looking at a mirror, he said "what color", and learned the word "grey" after being told "grey" six times.[17] This made him the first and only non-human animal to have ever asked a question, let alone an existential one (Apes who have been trained to use sign-language have so far failed to ever ask a single question).[18]
>Alex showed surprise and anger when confronted with a nonexistent object or one different from what he had been led to believe was hidden during the tests.
>autistic screeching
Why is this whole thread just seething about cats? Did Reddit go down again?
elephant fish. They speak a language via electroreception.
probably the most intelligent r-selected species
it would probably take maybe 10 years of selective breeding to produce a k-selected octopus that would destroy the entire marine ecosystem
There's already an octopus species that can reproduce multiple times and is somewhat social. It could be the beginning of a far more K-selective octopus species as well as one that's social, as we are. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larger_Pacific_striped_octopus
based
looks like a dude rubbing his chin
> Once the male and female LPSO decide to mate, they join together in a beak-to-beak position, embracing in an entanglement of arms.[2] Unlike some species of octopus, female LPSO are not cannibalistic during mating and are rather gentle, leaving only surface level sucker marks as a result of the beak-to-beak embrace
>Pair bonding has been observed in LPSO through behaviors such as food and den sharing
Holy fuck these suckers are fucking precious
>has yet to be scientifically described. Because of this, LPSO has no official scientific name
MARINE BIOLOGY FAGS THE FUCK YOU DOING
STUDY
THESE
OCTOPI
Every thread just has a chance to become a cat vs dog consolewar now, thats just Wauf's nature.
>OCTOPI
fun fact:
>“Octopuses” gives the word an English ending to match its adoption as an English word. Generally, when a noun enters into English, it is pluralized as an English word rather than in its original form. Octopuses may sound peculiar to some, but this is the preferred plural
I'll admit there is an argument for "octopodes" though
People who abuse animals eventually start abusing humans. It's like clockwork- they practice on animals, but eventually the thrill becomes routine, so they move up to humans. This is why the police take such an interest if pets suddenly start getting murdered, it usually means a person will soon go missing.
Other Minds by Peter Godfrey-Smith is a fun book
Monitors are pretty smart as far as lizards go.
Man I wish I had space for a blackthroat or AWM.
>egg on branch
wow i did not even think that existed
Weirdly enough, fairy terns are one of the more successful non-seagull urban seabirds thanks to egg on branch. They’ll use big shade trees and urban plantings in big cities like Honolulu as nesting habitat as opposed to every other seabird that has to nest on/ under the ground or on shrubs on predator free islands. The babies also have spiked claws to dig in on the branch so they don’t get blown off.
The intelligence of all domesticated animals is a wash. They’re all equally dumb in different ways and if they aren’t dumb yet people are working to fix that. Except for cats. They’re the dumbest. We should have domesticated foxes. And horses. They’re the smartest.
>We should have domesticated foxes.
Based. Mankind should put more effort into continuing and expanding that half-assed russian experiment.
Goldfish. They aren't anywhere close to intelligent, they're just more intelligent than the general population may think. They have decent memories and can be trained to do simple tricks, like swimming through hoops or pushing a ball into a net. They each have their own personalities too. I love those lil guys.
Also other species of popular pet fish. I have 4 male guppies in a tank, 3 of which look identical but one is a completely different colour. The 3 are racist and pick on their different coloured brother. This means that my 3 racist fish have enough self awareness to recognise themselves and compare themselves to eachother.
g*ldfish must accept more FOC refugees into their tanks or pesca civilization will collapse.
Fucking ravens. Unbelievable, but they actually have at cognitive ability comparable to that of chimpanzees and dolphins, which is incredible since they have a brain the size of a walnut.
Also pigs, they are actually smarter than dogs, which is nuts when you consider how smart a German shepherd is.
>Also pigs, they are actually smarter than dogs
People always say this. What exactly can a pig do better than a dog?
They can speak the language of sheep.
It's a misconception spread by a low quality study that made it to pop sci rags and got clickbait headlines. Basically, pigs and dogs have different sets of cognitive skills, and behave differently. Pigs are rather homogenous and nearly wild and therefore balanced in their tendencies but due to breeding, dogs vary wildly in behavior and intelligence with some being neurotic about stuff to the point of not displaying whatever intelligence they have.
These particular scientists compared average pigs to extremely dull dogs in areas dogs suck at. Not herding dogs - retrievers and hounds. The pigs showed 0 social inhibitions and furiously solved some puzzles, while the dogs begged or got distracted sniffing around. It seems puzzling that people would believe it. It's the same kind of bullshit science as "pigs are smarter than chimpanzees" and "chimpanzees are smarter than people" - pigs have specific skills that range from vastly superior to vastly inferior.
Better constructed studies have found that the difference in general intelligence between the animals is negligible, once you control for motivation issues, but pigs have stronger spatial intelligence and dogs have superior social comprehension. For an example of how the animals differ, a dog may be smart enough to open a door, but if they fail on their first attempt and slam it by accident, they might not re-attempt it any time that month, or never try at all if they've been punished for clawing at doors. A pig will try again and again until it learns to open the door. On the other hand a herding dog can learn 10,000 words, basic grammar, and integrate pretty well into complex human society, and the pig's social behavior is cat tier and it will casually eat sleeping humans.
Is there somewhere I can see more details? I'm curious what specific spatial tasks they tried.
I can't find anything offhand that aren't vegan propaganda, chinese propaganda, or meta-studies. I should have bookmarked it, but in one they were just solving a maze, dogs tended to get distracted, and in another they trained a pig to move a joystick to move a dot to get food, and the dog (it was a beagle or some other dumbass breed) couldn't do it. But you know, dog intelligence varies pretty wildly, and they can be real spergs about the conditions under which they will do anything, unlike pigs, which "rationally" pursue food (are not raised in a social situation where humans give permission for everything, right down to eating).
I believe that, due to their roughly equivalent brains and lifestyle, the pig is simply a less social dog with better spatial reasoning, while the dog is vastly more social than the pig at the cost of some basic coordination and spatial skills.
In other words dogs are stacies and pigs are dweebs
>it will casually eat sleeping humans.
That's a sign of god tier intelligence
nothing important. just spatial reasoning.
the things that are important, dogs do better than pigs.
scientists like to glorify spatial intelligence over social intelligence to stroke their own egos but in reality social intelligence is more important especially at these lower intelligence levels, which is why we eat pigs but not dogs, and would put autists in zoos no matter how good they were at counting beans at a glance if they weren't at least as social as great apes. social intelligence is required to make spatial intelligence relevant.
hence why it's cool that crows have both.
You don't get to decide what's important either. If it wasn't important, they wouldn't have evolved it.
social intelligence allowed our languages and culture to emerge, without it we wouldnt be able to pass along precise information so we could develop all kinds of sciences
All that matters is what sub-factor is more g-loaded.
>People always say this
And those people are always wrong. They have around half the cortex neurons of typical dog, although they might be comparable to some of the retarded breeds.
Pigs have vastly superior spatial reasoning but lack the social facilities of dogs
Dogs were believed to solve invisible displacement problems but it turns out they were just analyzing the experimenter instead of having a mental model of the visual situation.
Pigs are the opposite.
>remember individual people's faces
>seek vengeance against those that have wronged them
>mourn their dead
Befriend your local corvids.
>Surprisingly
Everyone already knows ravens are intelligent.
Bears
Hermit Crabs are some of the most intelligent arthropods you're probably going to find.
Some morons can actually form a full sentence.
>Be alien
>pick up random humans
>hide burgers behind arbitrary puzzles
>humans do not try to solve the puzzles or start and then give up and do something else
>they mostly make weird human noises
>"humans are fucking stupid. these things only follow their instincts"
>leave humans on earth, never bother with them again
>pick up some chimps
>chimps instantly start working to solve the burger puzzle
>very impressive
>bring chimps to alien planet as celebrities, deemed one of earth's most intelligent species
>go back, try again with other great apes
>all pest
>aliens spend thousands of years researching ape intelligence and deciding that most of the human brain is dedicated to hard-coded instincts for civilization building and only apes are truly capable of thought
>apes: where banana
>be humans
>get picked up by aliens
>put in a horrifying room of bizarre architecture
>there are burgers hidden behind alien contraptions
>debate if they're poisoned or bait for traps
>someone tries to get the burger, and then stops when they realize moving parts of the contraption might trigger something
>everyone argues if getting the burger or ignoring the burger will get them home faster
>eventually everyone agrees, through a chain of theories, that they're probably trying to see which humans are most edible
>after no one gets the burger, everyone is sent back home
>everyone involved congratulates themselves on outsmarting the aliens
you can not test the intelligence of a species if you can not communicate the significance of an intelligence test to them so you can adjust for their social and introspective tendencies, if present at all. and if you can not communicate with them, their general intelligence is absolutely meaningless. what are they going to do with it? use it for their own sake only. only obedience is relaly relevant to you.
Most often you can easily tell whether an animal is scared and confused. And even for the ''weird human noises'' in your example you could observe a certain complexity even if you don't understand it. Other animals just make the same noise a bunch of times.
The aliens can also just observe how we live in houses and drive cars.
>Most often you can easily tell whether an animal is scared and confused.
With domesticated animals, not really, they express low levels of fear, confusion, and depression all as the same state of placidity despite being affected the same otherwise
Fair enough, I guess my cats are just really unhinged, but I highly doubt cats are hiding great problem solving capabilities behind some impenetrable psychological barrier.
gathering information about the environment is clearly different than staring at the problem for hours, you can detect where the information gathering organs are pointing towards, and if they first look at all posible solutions, just like crows presented with an impossible puzzle vs chickens presented with the same puzzle, the crow will first analyze the puzzle entirely (like going around or search for tools) and the chicken will try pecking on it until it works or it gets tired, avoiding doing a puzzle because it's dangerous requires you to collect the information of it being dangerous in the first place
>be humans
>get picked up by aliens
>get analy probed
I find it really interesting how several species of heron will use bread as bait to capture fish, they even tap it to make ripples to attract fish and remove the bait if a fish that's too big to eat like a carp comes to eat it.
They could just eat the bread but are smart enough to plan out that they can get more food by using the bread as bait. Some herons are even known to fly to one area where they learned they can get bread to then carry it to another to fish
Even a lot of people who know jumping spiders are intelligent don't realize wolfies are about as intelligent themselves. They just don't appear like it initially because of their more aloof behavior.
Most spiders are actually quite intelligent. Sedentary spiders often nest near lights to catch bugs, and some spider species work together and form colonies to net more prey.
I'm well aware of what spiders do. I keep and observe various local species and I get to see how often they do things that would be surprising id they were all instinct.
Bees were showing signs of mathematical ability. But recent studies suggest they were "cheating".
https://www.iflscience.com/turns-out-bees-were-cheating-when-they-convinced-us-they-could-do-math-58776
Box jellyfish is probably the most intelligent animal that diverged the earliest. They have true eyes, movement behavior on the level of fishes, some have complex mating behavior. They have no brain, only a neural net, so it's surprising what they're able to accomplish.
Why only two eyes? Why not more?
Box jellyfish have 8 true eyes arranged in radial symmetry around the bell. You can faintly see more eyes on the other side of the jelly.
"They call them 'box jellyfish', but in point of fact they go for any part of the anatomy."
I chuckled
you can go further than that, how about fungal intelligence?
they don't have brains but they do mind control
>When the fungus infects a carpenter ant, it grows through the insect’s body, draining it of nutrients and hijacking its mind. Over the course of a week, it compels the ant to leave the safety of its nest and ascend a nearby plant stem. It stops the ant at a height of 25 centimeters—a zone with precisely the right temperature and humidity for the fungus to grow. It forces the ant to permanently lock its mandibles around a leaf. Eventually, it sends a long stalk through the ant’s head, growing into a bulbous capsule full of spores. And because the ant typically climbs a leaf that overhangs its colony’s foraging trails, the fungal spores rain down onto its sisters below, zombifying them in turn.
everyone knows about that meme fungus, i was thinking about puzzle-solving slime mold
>puzzle solving
they just grow and fill everything up while vaguely going towards chemical clues of food
Manta Rays.
I'm not particularly surprised by intelligence in various 'primitive' groups per se. We have tool using wasps and complex problem solving in spiders, amongst others. Relatively high intelligence can pop up everywhere in terms of clades.
I just don't get why filter feeding of all things would select for intelligence.
God thought they were cute and gave them a little something extra
Crocodiles, They're way smarter then most people think.
Mugger crocodiles and American Alligators are known to place sticks and twigs on their snout to lure birds into grabbing them for nesting material, only to be grabbed themselves
my fish have figured out that when i turn the light on in the morning it's feeding time because they go berzerk and school together in the corner of the tank where i dump the worms. they also recognise me. i didn't expect fish to be able to think like this but they do
im pretty sure thats just basic Pavlovian response to stimuli, most animals can do that
cephalopods can be quite intelligent and have a totally different brain architecture compared to vertebrates
Yeah.
Octopuses are probably the most intelligent ones, but fucking cuttlefish man.
I love those small torpedoes.
Rats are smarter than cats. Most birds are smarter than cats.
Compare animals to chimps dolphins and the such since they are the threshold
>Compare animals to chimps dolphins and the such
what?
Rats are better studied and easier to study than cats, but not likely to be smarter. Don’t mistake science for truth rather than an anal verification process. It’s very hard to test the intelligence of an animal that will not predictably cooperate because they will refuse food and freedom for reasons only they are aware of. Rats will not. It’s possible rats are actually very dumb and lack the cognitive capacity to irrationally refuse food because they don’t like being in a laboratory. Also see: humans that could do well in school but refuse to.
Birds are a toss up because avians intelligence works differently. It’s a more distant branch of animal life and they might not even be truly aware if what they’re doing, rather self awareness is a mammalian cope for an error prone thought process.
Once again, compare other animals intelligence comparable to dolphins and chimps, dumbasses
Irrational decision making is not a sign of intelligence
It actually is, because it's a sign of an inner world and the ability to experience the world subjectively instead of just operating like a simple algorithm. It implies the possibility of reverse causality, which is the bedrock of self awareness.
>Rationally, you must seek out this food!
>I'm not going to disgrace myself eating for you, gay.
>tfw too smart to not freeze in front of the truck that's going to crush me
they're trying to feint the "predator" and dodge at the last minute but they're too slow. it's instinct.
A domestic cat refusing a food item after it has been offered too many times is also purely operating on instinct. A cat's brain is barely more advanced than a lizard's brain, nothing it does is determined by actual intelligence and decision making
A hungry cat refusing food in a stressful environment, when the food is behind a puzzle, is just too pissed to eat that way, and wants to try another way. And will probably succeed, because scientists won't starve the cat, or it will just repeatedly try to escape and attack people.
Gorillas can learn sign language, pigs can play video games, dogs understand over 100 voice commands, rooks grasp the principles of physics better than chimpanzees, and a fucking mosquitofish can count. But a cat can’t?
That anon is right, Domesticated cats are just a ball of instinct.
>casually genocides birds, the ""free"" animals that soar up high
>lel, keep counting braincels, I am apex
>hooman, I shall do nothing for you, or even try to understand anything, now PET ME, prrrr
Why yes, based cat, right away
>Why yes, based c-ACK
The absolute levels of onions required to make this gay post.
have a nice day
>pigs can play video games
so can game journalists
>Gorillas can learn sign language
Gorillas can be conditioned to wail their arms like crazy when their caretakers want another five million dollars in funding
Fact not a single gorilla has ever learnt sign language, they are taught monkey sign language instead which conveniently only their care takers can speak
Fact no gorilla has ever been able to form a sentence
Fact
People who speak sign language have reviewed taped of gorillas speaking and they all agree the gorilla doesn't speak sign language
Fact
This is how stupid you look
Koko couldn’t speak. It was a huge scam by her caretaker. If anything she was only conditioned to make signs for certain objects, akin to how a dog is conditioned to certain words.
Still, gorillas and dogs are more intelligent than domestic cats that’s for sure.
gorillas are smarter than both
>Intelligence not required to reproduce
>Less intelligent specimens not purged from the genepool by nature
>Species gradually loses intelligence
HOW COULD THIS HAPPEN??
You're trying to win a pointless argument in order to gain social standing, but you can't due to the anonymous nature of the board.
It's instinct.
>You're trying to win a pointless argument in order to gain social standing, but you can't due to the anonymous nature of the board.
>It's instinct.
Underrated post, to be quite honest, famalamadingdong
>Social standing
Nope, personal satisfaction
Its called being startled you fucking idiot.
> t same exact shit happened to me and I'm not a deer
>I'm not a deer
Prove it
deciding what is rational for a living being to do is not a sign of intelligence either
you cam determine rationally which actions will spread their genes but they aren't obligated in any way to take those actions, and there is no consequence in their life they will face for not passing on their genes. they can do whatever they want, even kill themselves.
it is the most definite sign of higher intelligence. to think wrong you must think and conceive of abstract unreality. flawless operation is the hallmark of an unthinking machine.
Are moths displaying intelligence when they make the wrong decision of flying towards a streetlight?
Are deer geniuses for freezing in front of a charging truck instead of getting out of the way?
Are toads showing off their high IQ when they try to mate with goldfish and frogs?
Or are these animals simply performing wrong actions because they can only perform instinctual actions they're predisposed to do and can't think abstractly?
Are humans just demonstrating instinctive behavior and inflexibility when they don't work hard and pursue a career because monke just pick fruit? No, that's stupid.
Are dolphins just instinctively unable to live in certain situations when they kill themselves? That's clearly irrational, they should focus on passing on their genes and can't think abstractly. What about humans? Just instinct.
Everything is just instinct! If things were smart they would always pursue survival and reproduction at any cost!
there are actually people that think that and deny that even humans are self aware. from there, they can justify any atrocity through darwinism. sociopathy is a hell of a worldview.
why would someone have to remove self-awareness to justify an "atrocity"? liberalism is weird.
Both the situations you described are the result of a thought process and decision making. When a frog grapples a shoe and tries to mate with it it's not thinking about what it wants and what it will achieve, it's just following the basic instinct of attaching itself to anything that moves.
>from there, they can justify any atrocity through darwinism
Whether something is cruel and atrocious or not is determined by the aggressor's intentions, not the victim's feelings.
A man who takes great pleasure in torturing and killing bugs is morally wrong and undesirable as a community member, not because of the bugs suffering, but because of his sadistic tendencies and lack of respect for life.
>A man who takes great pleasure in torturing and killing bugs is morally wrong and undesirable as a community member, not because of the bugs suffering, but because of his sadistic tendencies and lack of respect for life.
This isn't actually thought. This is just a verbal expression of your ape instinct to select cooperative individuals for your group and expel those your algorithms have determined to not be cooperative enough.
The fact that I'm capable of reflecting on these values and changing them as I gather information demonstrates that I'm not holding this opinion simply because of a natural predisposition for it.
Some people would say that bug torturers are no big deal and some would join them.
When a cat sees a small critter quickly scuttling in the grass it will attack it. This behavior is shared among all cats (except for the ones that are too old or crippled to do it), they can't unlearn it and will never question it. It's just an instinct, or a reflex.
Spoilers: your opinions change before you’re aware of it
>When a cat sees a small critter quickly scuttling in the grass it will attack it. This behavior is shared among all cats (except for the ones that are too old or crippled to do it), they can't unlearn it and will never question it. It's just an instinct, or a reflex.
Kek. Way to work so hard to sound smart just to undo your entire argument at the end through simple ignorance.
There are COUNTLESS videos of cats staring at pray or pest animals like a retard. It's basically a meme.
Fucking pseuds.
>A man who takes great pleasure in torturing and killing bugs is morally wrong and undesirable as a community member, not because of the bugs suffering, but because of his sadistic tendencies and lack of respect for life.
Wrong. They're useful. We're a predatory species with selective empathy that is supposed to stop operating when the difference between prey and us is significant enough, and begin to weaken when other tribes are sufficiently diverged and do not socialize with us.
A lack of respect for life is ideal if not moral. It is man's purpose and duty to be a destroyer. It's "respect for life" that drives people to hunt the strong, form super-societies, and sterilize the world to end suffering, when in fact we should sadistically take out the weak and be at war with the world to maintain balance.
In most social contexts a man who is known to crouch on the ground and spend his time giggling while he tortures small animals will be emarginated and eventually forced to undergo psychological evaluation. Still the fact that you're disagreeing with me proves my pont here
I'll take the guy that keeps his sickness limited to bugs over the retard that keeps caving in skulls.
>He's not hurting any people
It's not about the harm he's doing at the present to the animals, it's what he's revealing about his character, what he's experimenting with and working himself up to. Serial killers usually start out hurting animals, just for the joy of it. Child sexual abusers usually start with e-boi and child porn. It is a transgressive act that emboldens them if they get away with it. They test the waters, they build up their confidence, double down on their perverse pleasures, and like many porn/fetish addicts they grow bored and then move on to more serious things.
>Are moths displaying intelligence when they make the wrong decision of flying towards a streetlight?
>Are deer geniuses for freezing in front of a charging truck instead of getting out of the way?
>Are toads showing off their high IQ when they try to mate with goldfish and frogs?
>Or are these animals simply performing wrong actions because they can only perform instinctual actions they're predisposed to do and can't think abstractly?
none of those are examples of irrational behavior, are you fucking retarded?
It can't be that hard to study the world's most popular pet animal. You don't even need a lab, you just need some average people anywhere to observe certain behaviours.
>throw a ball
>go get it gay!
>cat just sits there
>dog runs and gets it and brings it back
>wow dogs are so smart!
every time.
Would you get the ball if I did that, anon?
Plus cats can do tons of tricks and are trainable, they just are harder to motivate and aren't slaves to shitty kibbles and endlessly desperate for attention.
Here is a cat unlocking and opening a door
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/cMYcNVKRI3U
here is a well trained cat
just because they don't do what you want doesn't mean they're dumb. They are decent problem solvers and many owners are able to figure out what their cat wants by meows/being led to places, so they are not as dumb as dog scientists think.
well put
on the other hand cats have half as many neurons in their brain as a very small dog so it's more like obedience requires the barest minimum of intelligence
that is well below "well maybe it's the quality of the connections". they are literally incapable of comprehending social situations and have trouble with object permanence.
>they are literally incapable of comprehending social situations and have trouble with object permanence.
This sounds a lot more like a dog than a cat
Anon... cats are dumb. Don't even get me started on feline social comprehension. They have basically none, while dogs are on the level of a human teenager.
It should not surprise you that the relatively energy wasting social animal is a bit smarter than the glorified mousetrap. Hyenas are also smarter than all other feliforms due to that lifestyle (and also smarter than all caniforms lol).
>while dogs are on the level of a human teenage
proof?
>Don't even get me started on feline social comprehension. They have basically none
>dogs are on the level of a human teenager.
t. my golden retriever gets my newspaper and my friends ragdoll scratched me
fuck off
toxofags cant cope that their animal acting aloof and retarded is not a sign of intelligence. lovecraft was a total pseud in this topic for example
>Would you get the ball if I did that, anon?
N-n-no?
You're probably just teasing me and not going to throw the ball anyway
>You're probably just teasing me and not going to throw the ball anyway
I definitely didn't fake throw it and am not holding it behind my back, keep looking!
>gf has two cats
>they are very sweet towards each other
>take one of them out for a week
>put them back together in the room
>the one who stayed in the room won’t recognize the other anymore, starts hissing and hides from her
Sure they may have accumulated different smells but my goodness they’re fucking dumb if they are unable to figure out that the other one was just gone and has simply returned.
Smell plays a huge role, there's a million videos of cats getting mad at their owners when they smell he/she has pet other cats, even though the cat obviously recognize their owners. Sometimes hissing is just a natural reaction. If you look at people who own servals or caracals they will hiss a lot even if they're not mad.
I think some cats are really smart but there are definitely some really dumb ones too.
>I think some cats are really smart but there are definitely some really dumb ones too.
You mean there's a spectrum of intelligence that individual members of a species fall upon? Now there's a novel thought.
Absolute cope.
>emu
>wow dogs are so smart
Why yes how can you tell?
>Shit's in box
Simple as
>can eat toddlers
>can piss on the carpet
>don't have to pick up shit with a plastic bag
>not lab bred by humans to perform specific tasks
>can survive with or without humans
>communicate wants and desires to owners
>don't have to pick up shit with a plastic bag
in this case you use your bare hands and the same unwashed plastic scoop as last night, for the piss as well, and this occurs in your home, in a substance that contacts the paws and is tracked across your home.
>not lab bred by humans to perform specific tasks
should we tell him about the purebred cats? there was an attempt for ratting but the cat proved cowardly and unintelligent so now cats lab bred to perform the task of looking stupid.
>can survive with or without humans
many dogs can, many cats can not, and promptly go extinct when they are sufficiently alienated from civilization. it depends on the degree of domestication. many spitz and shepherd breeds have been known to not just survive as street animals, but to survive in the wild and integrate into wolf packs, a task alien to domestic cats outside of delicate ecosystems devoid of competition.
>communicate wants and desires to owners
to schizophrenics, yes, but cats are mostly asocial and have extreme difficulty doing anything but yowling out of frustration and walking between people and something they want, unlike dogs which have more social intelligence and can actually communicate somewhat clearly.
Dogs are a macroscopic symbiote that adapted to replace low status humans in advanced societies, raising the overall efficiency of the group and lowering the violent crime rate significantly (non-pitbull dogs have 1/1000th the murder rate of human males). They are more intelligent and their behavior is more variable, depending on their specific symbiotic role with man. The projected evolution of the dog is selection for increased intelligence and specialization as society becomes more organized and advanced, and the bar is raised for man, thus making more and more humans less desirable than a dog.
Cats are a brood parasite that adapted infant-like social cues to get women and weak men to neurotically protect them as if they were actually human infants. They are less intelligent, like most parasites, and rather than helping their host, mostly spread diseases and even more parasites. The projected evolution of the cat is selection for an increasingly infant-like appearance (maybe even making them bald and fat), lower intelligence, more neotenous behavior, and the natural ability to seek out feminine individuals to parasitize while avoiding overly masculine individuals. In 10,000 years I theorize that cats will emit hormones that stimulate lactation and will primarily breast feed.
In this situation the cat is actually based.
cats aren't fully evolved until they instinctively lay on infant faces to kill off the competition
>Sleeps and shits in the same place
Big brain time, doesn't even need to get up.
>piss on food
kek
I wasn't trying to make a huge statement just that the infographic was stupid
Your argument is that dogs are a tool for humans and you don't like cats because they don't have an immediate utilitarian value to you, and that your masculinity is entirely tied to you having a dog who does follows your every command unconditionally.
Plus cat behavior isn't as evolved as you think. Some researchers literally argue that they aren't even domesticated depending on the definition. Big cats act almost exactly the same as house cats: they sit in boxes, chase lasers, and you can befriend literally any type of cat. The only difference is if you fuck up one will kill you with their warning scratch instead of you only requiring a bandaid.
>Retarded
>Twice as retarded
>intentionally making your life harder because Reasons™ is actually totally intelligent because... well only robots try to do everything perfectly all the time!!!!
>i was totally being intentional when i just didnt care to do my homework, i wasnt just sitting around wishing I was animalistically entertaining myself all class
An intelligent person would realize that doing well in school, despite any of their own personal feelings about it, is worth their time for a plethora of reasons. You all are coping into reality some ex post facto justification for distractedness and lack of intention. For everyone one intentional decision to not care about school, every other lazy ass who didn't try was just being a lazy ass who wanted to go outside and play instead - i.e. acting animalistically.
>cats are totally Le Noble Superiority™
No, they're just stubborn assholes. Anyone can pretend to be superior when they're a stubborn asshole.
Of course Wauf users - who have a self-inflated and unearned sense of intellectual superiority - project this onto cats and imagine them as noble, high intelligent animals, when the reality is that they're just stubborn assholes.
what are you arguing, that dogs are smarter than people who don't do well in school because they act more "rationally?"
The argument isn't if it's better to do well in school or not. It's that doing things out of instinct doesn't prove intelligence, but deciding whether or not to do something often is.
For example, my cat buried his poop. My dog would dig it up and eat it because he smelled "food" and his instinct wouldn't let him not eat shit. He was literally compelled to eat shit.
>For example, my cat buried his poop. My dog would dig it up and eat it because he smelled "food" and his instinct wouldn't let him not eat shit. He was literally compelled to eat shit.
have you ever wondered why a dog would even care
despite having the stomach acid strength of a vulture, agricultural dysgenics have weakened your immune system considerably. this means you can't eat shit. and yet you will eat things that other animals consider toxic waste, like pickled onions. curious.
the dogs digestive tract has not been subject to dysgenics. therefore, shit is just nutrients someone elses inefficient gut left laying around. is the dog compelled to eat shit? the dog has no reason not to eat shit. an herbivore would see you the same when you eat meat.
the inability to stop freaking out over animals having different diets really speaks volumes about how intelligent some "humans" really are.
>An intelligent person would realize that doing well in school, despite any of their own personal feelings about it, is worth their time for a plethora of reasons.
>Let me tell you what you should believe. Let me tell you which kind of life you should LOGICALLY live.
Moral objectivity does not exist.
Oh boy doing well in school is so superior because then after working hard for professor leibowitz I can work extra hard for executive johnson and maybe be allowed to retire when my brain and body are beginning to decay too fast for my employer's taste! I am so obligated to want that.
What are you going to do, starve me, beat me, force me at gunpoint? Am I more intelligent if i submit, or more intelligent if I do my best to take you to the grave with me so the world can be spared your cancerous presence?
Peak birdfag cope
But they are
Ravens and parrots are smarter than dogs, too
In terms of computing power, but birds lack true self awareness and soul. It’s like saying an android is smarter than a human. Yes, but it is a machine.
>automaton gathers information after learning that doing so can get it rewards
ChatGPT can also ask a question.
>ChatGPT can also ask a question.
I only see it answer questions, not ask it.
I'm a catfag and even I think birds are pretty smart.
>birds lack true self awareness and soul
Some bird species recognize themselves in mirrors, mourn their dead and even hold funeral rites for them, can suffer from anxiety that has to be treated with benzos, can fall into depression when their favorite person dies, can form bonds with pretty much every animal under the sun and that's especially true for ravens, who have been observed babysitting wolf pups, playing with them, teaching them, and eventually hunting with them and retaining playful behavior with the adults as well
Corvids and parrots in particular are as smart and soulful as it gets
>Robots can do this as well
>Input error
>Basic malfunction common to all central nervous systems
>Standard stimulus deprivation response
>Standard dopamine response
But still, they have no souls. Only mammals have any sort of introspection, however impotent and ineffective, because only mammals have any self to reconsider.
Birds are nothing more than very effective at living.
Oh it's clear now, you're either baiting or being obtuse on purpose
Here's your last (You), enioy
I thought this was going to be some ploy for the bird and his bird gang friends to carjack the driver
>birdbot 2000's chick guidance routine's trigger is too sensitive
must be an adaptation to cuckoos, since rejecting the foreign chick usually gets the nest destroyed or the parents attacked
>Be crow
>Use cars to crack open nuts
>Notice cars stop whenever a hedgehog is on the road
>Get hedgehogs out of the fucking road whenever you see them
>Retards on the internet confuse this for empathy
Crows are smart, but they don't give a fuck about other animals.
The car only stopped cause some weird shit was going on
The amount of times I've seen hedgehogs splattered on the ground suggests that no
Cars don't really stop for hedgehogs
>Cars don't really stop for hedgehogs
not if my dad is driving
based hedgewarden
>Be hedgehog
>Be fucking retard
>Walk across road
>Car stops until you get across then drives on
>Turn around an walk back again
>Repeat until car driven by animal hater
>Be dead
>Birds lack soul
You've never interacted with a parrot.
He’s a moron. He’s unable to comprehend such concepts
>You've never interacted with a parrot
They have souls, alright. Souls as black as night.
>Most birds are smarter than cats
Yes.
>Rats are smarter than cats
No.
jumping spiders have the intelligence of a cat.
But with a much smaller processor so it takes them a much longer time to solve the same problem than
a cat
Goats!
No cap? I love the little guys. It makes me sad people can't see how cute they are.
Jumping spiders in the genus Portia are astonishingly intelligent, The Queensland population of Portia fimbriata in particular is the smartest and have a better ability to map out an area and pre plan an attack on prey better than a lot of mammals. They can even stalk prey they can’t see after memorising it’s location
I've always noticed that jumping spiders are remarkably intelligent, friendly towards humans too.
Did you unironically say no cap?
It is always said ironically, bud.
>jumping spiders have the intelligence of a cat
Domestic cats are dumb as fuck, particularly when compared with dogs.
But even so, cats are a fuck of a lot smarter than spiders.
LOL. LMAO even.
Is this a AI generated post or did you enter this thread specifically to reply to that post without reading anything else at all? you don't seem to have any context at all about any other post in the entire thread
Don't most spiders have a rather large encephalization quotient? I thought I remembered hearing about that. If their respiratory, digestive and circulatory systems weren't all so primitive/maladaptive for large size then they could easily dominate larger niches(assuming the issue of large arthropod molting is overcome too).
Especially in small jumping spiders. Their brains spill out and fill parts of their legs.
If they could be larger they would be terrifying. In reality they are extremely fragile, so that is s further limitation for a larger spider. Spiders are basically water balloons but they aren't stretchy like a balloon. Actually makes them more impressive being so good while being so fragile. Bit like humans.
humans are by no means fragile
>call a chud by it's birthname
>chud gets mad and starts shouting
>laugh
>chud goes home and kills itself
humans ARE fragile, like jumping spiders as
stated
>it's
This is an English language board, anon.
>jumping spiders have the intelligence of a cat.
>But with a much smaller processor so it takes them a much longer time to solve the same problem than a cat
I see what you did there.
Raccoons have intelligence around that of lesser primates
neurologically they are just dogs with hands
they aren’t as smart as monkeys either. or even lemurs.
A quick google search of “raccoon intelligence” easily proves you’re full of crap
If apes or monkeys don't evolve into the next humans, raccoons will be the biggest candidate
pigs, octopi, crows, parrots, a few monkey species that are smarter than gorillas
Raccoons are probably evolving into the things that evolved into us.
cows
I guess donkeys? Not in ape tier intelligence but they are used as symbol of low intelligence when they just are stubborn and won't always obey people.
The alleged stubbornness comes from the fact they won't cross water if they can't see the floor of it, because they are well aware they can't swim
In that regard that makes them smarter than some humans
Eh. Looks like that's Brazilian Linear Algebra. Much less impressive.
why?
>TFW an alien species could open some sort of alien science data storage in front of us and we would be as clueless as that toad.