Pic related is the blue anole. It is native to only one island and is considered severely endangered.

Pic related is the blue anole. It is native to only one island and is considered severely endangered. And yet, it would be extremely easy for people to own them as pets.

If animals like this were allowed to be held in captivity then they would literally never go extinct. There are hundreds of breeders who would love to get their hands on a blue anole but they are "protected" (aka doomed to die out)

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  1. 4 months ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    Yes as long as the species is then captive bred so it doesn't need to be smuggled anymore. That's how it works in Europe, Germans especially smuggle stuff like African tarantulas and geckos which is illegal, but the captive bred offspring are perfectly fine to have and sell. This is how many species have become established in the pet trade there.
    In America we have the Endangered Species Act which says that the offspring of an illegally acquired animal is still illegal no matter how many generations of it have been captive bred, so that method doesn't work here.

    I hate people who have this opinion, their wild habitat doesn't exist anymore, that is why they are extinct in the wild and are forced to subsist in the pet keeping hobby. otherwise they wouldn't exist at all.

    It's a redditor mindset, I've seen it there when asking about importing new herps
    >hurr why do you want to be a pioneer and own something new, just keep leopard geckos and bearded dragons like the rest of us durr

    • 4 months ago
      Anonymous

      >>hurr why do you want to be a pioneer and own something new, just keep leopard geckos and bearded dragons like the rest of us durr
      You are not a pioneer. You will never be a pioneer. Pioneers don't hoard animals and breed whatever to whatever because they think it's cool. You're a moron with delusions of grandeur.

      • 4 months ago
        Anonymous

        Seathe more while your inbred bearded dragon shits on you next time you hold it

  2. 4 months ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    As a rule of thumb, anything that the government says is absolutely, 100% bad is usually 50/50 or more good than bad.

  3. 4 months ago
    Anonymous

    >If animals like this were allowed to be held in captivity then they would literally never go extinct.
    The same can be said for a load of endangered birds and mammals too. How many zoos would KILL to breed red pandas? Yet only the richest, largest AZA zoos will ever keep them. If more people were allowed to have them they would be off the endangered list in 5 years. How long must we sit with endangered species being on the list for 50 years (and likely forever) before we learn? Regulations like the Endangered Species Act exist to benefit the top 5% of animal facilities, not to help their captive populations. They keep them scarce on purpose to give them value and make more people want to visit their zoo.

    A ton of endangered/threatened small mammals and reptiles also could make decent pets and be given value that way. It’s already worked for many species.

    • 4 months ago
      Anonymous

      >the zoo equivalent of backyard breeding is good, actually
      You don't seriously believe this?

  4. 4 months ago
    Anonymous

    I don't want them to be in captivity, I want them to be free in their wild habitat.

    • 4 months ago
      Anonymous

      I hate people who have this opinion, their wild habitat doesn't exist anymore, that is why they are extinct in the wild and are forced to subsist in the pet keeping hobby. otherwise they wouldn't exist at all.

    • 4 months ago
      Anonymous

      >I don't want to be wet, I want to not be on fire
      t. Burning Man standing by a pond

    • 4 months ago
      Anonymous

      >I don't want them to be in captivity, I want them to be free in their wild habitat.

  5. 4 months ago
    Anonymous

    I love anoles so much

  6. 4 months ago
    Anonymous

    I breed herps and inverts on a small but rapidly expanding level and can confirm, if the government paid me I'd breed those mother frickers for a repopulation effort I'd be producing hundreds a year within no time.
    Mainly because government contacts are way more lucrative than producing for the pet trade.

    But they want do that because I'm in America and those are lizards, not illegal immigrants.

    • 4 months ago
      Anonymous

      >I'd be producing hundreds a year within no time.
      That's the thing about this whole situation. Reptiles and amphibians are literally designed to have a shitload of offspring at a time because only a small percentage will survive in the wild. In captivity where the majority of offspring will survive there is no excuse for this israeli price gouging.
      I've heard breeders complain about having too many offspring to deal with and then you look at the price and its absurdly high. No shit nobody is buying them.

      • 4 months ago
        Anonymous

        Yeah, that's herptile economics 101 dude. I breed specialty springtails and a few species of isopods. I have a friend who runs a pet store. He/she buys my insects for half of what they sell for.
        I can literally mass produce these things. They're "slow breeding" as far as springtails go but they also breed exponentially and inbreeding is a non issue.

        If I had to guess, I have 3 or 4 thousand Thai reds, and the same amount of yuukianaru orange, as well as the other variants.
        The reds go for about 60$ anywhere online, and the oranges go for 25-50 for a starter colony.

        All these things do is look pretty and are part of a bioactive enclosure.
        I could easily flood the market, make them lose half their value overnight, but I don't, because that's moronic.

        Fair is fair though. We breeders need to get paid and I do this full time and my friend has a store to run. I love what I do, but I also do it because I need money and frick getting a regular job.

        If you want to talk about bullshit pricing look into these name brand products like the (seedling)heat pads, water bowls, fake plants, etc.
        They literally just slap "for reptiles" on the packaging and double or triple the price. I almost never buy name brand unless it really matters.

      • 4 months ago
        Anonymous

        >Reptiles and amphibians are literally designed to have a shitload of offspring at a time because only a small percentage will survive in the wild. In captivity where the majority of offspring will survive there is no excuse for this israeli price gouging.
        This. There is no reason why anoles should be thousands of dollars. For something that only has a couple babies a year like shinglebacks I can understand but this is ridiculous

        • 4 months ago
          Anonymous

          [...]
          Jesus Christ. I hate the morons who pawn off rare imports, but zoos who don't put effort into breeding their animals are equal sinners.
          At least the herp community has gotten to the point where breeders who know what they're doing can clock in good breeding setups and will breed them as part of their livelihood or as part of their main interest.

          It's funny that the paradigm shifted and now private hobbyists are the ones actually conserving the animal for the future rather than zoos.
          In fact, zoos actually obtain most of their animals from private breeders. Most zoos don't import any new species into the country and instead rely on the hobbyist to bring them in.

          I'm planning on importing some "new" species into the US in the near future, it's really not as hard as it seems. I put new in quotes because they were here once, just nobody bothered breeding them and now they're gone.

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Most zoos don't import any new species into the country and instead rely on the hobbyist to bring them in.
            That’s is really confusing. Why the hell not? Clearly there’s no legal issue if your average freelance breeder that’s interested can get ahold of them so why can’t a business entirely dedicated to getting ahold of, taking care of and showing off animals to the public do the same?

            • 4 months ago
              Anonymous

              Ah, that costs money, my friend.

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            >It's funny that the paradigm shifted and now private hobbyists are the ones actually conserving the animal for the future rather than zoos.
            Too bad the government and NGOs haven't figured out that it would be to their net benefit to work with reliable private breeders. In fact, their mindset on these matters seems to be stuck in the 20th Century.

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            >It's funny that the paradigm shifted and now private hobbyists are the ones actually conserving the animal for the future rather than zoos.
            It's more common than you think. Basically every state agency supposedly tasked with preserving the environment just do whatever their lobbyists tell them to do. And their lobbyists are hunters, farmers and corporations. Someone is literally going to have to smuggle a small population of these off the island and out of the country before they go extinct.

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            >In fact, zoos actually obtain most of their animals from private breeders
            I can confirm this. I have a friend who breeds cloud rats for example and supplies them to some big name zoos.

            These same zoos then turn around at every opportunity and bash people like him who run small private facilities at every opportunity. When I import white faced owls I will not be selling to them.

  7. 4 months ago
    Anonymous

    If fancy A. roquet already go for 1.2k for a pair I don't want to imagine what A. gorgonae would be sold for.

    • 4 months ago
      Anonymous

      >person has a breeding pair of super rare expensive lizard
      >instead of capitalizing on it and breeding them he sells the pair for a quick profit
      >the new owner doesnt give a shit and doesnt bother breeding them
      >the lizards never get established in the hobby and retain their sky high price (if you can even find them)
      I've seen this happen so many times it isn't even funny anymore

      • 4 months ago
        Anonymous

        Because
        >A) short-sighted people get animals they shouldn't with absolutely no obligations to do anything with them
        >B) rich people who buy animals don't give a shit about breeding, they want display animals to jerk off to in front of their friends
        It doesn't just apply to individuals, either. There are organizations that call themselves "zoos" that have done this shit before too, not just with reptiles.

        • 4 months ago
          Anonymous

          Apparently there's a single zoo in the US with a pair of mature giant scrub pythons, yet they haven't bred them after years of having them

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            https://i.imgur.com/ZW2olWI.jpg

            >i on the other hand would set an example for everyone and be totally different 🙂
            Don't be a c**t. If I had a bunch of money and free time I would set up a reptile breeding operation, but alas I don't so I need to be content with my cheap guppies and dwarf frogs.
            [...]
            [...]
            There was a guy who imported a group of pic related wall lizards from Europe not knowing they were ESA listed (a moronic law that only applies to the USA, not internationally like CITES). They got confiscated from him and sent to some organization where of course they'll just sit there as display animals instead of him who was an actual breeder.

            Jesus Christ. I hate the morons who pawn off rare imports, but zoos who don't put effort into breeding their animals are equal sinners.
            At least the herp community has gotten to the point where breeders who know what they're doing can clock in good breeding setups and will breed them as part of their livelihood or as part of their main interest.

    • 4 months ago
      Anonymous

      lol what the frick what website is that

      >person has a breeding pair of super rare expensive lizard
      >instead of capitalizing on it and breeding them he sells the pair for a quick profit
      >the new owner doesnt give a shit and doesnt bother breeding them
      >the lizards never get established in the hobby and retain their sky high price (if you can even find them)
      I've seen this happen so many times it isn't even funny anymore

      Because
      >A) short-sighted people get animals they shouldn't with absolutely no obligations to do anything with them
      >B) rich people who buy animals don't give a shit about breeding, they want display animals to jerk off to in front of their friends
      It doesn't just apply to individuals, either. There are organizations that call themselves "zoos" that have done this shit before too, not just with reptiles.

      i on the other hand would set an example for everyone and be totally different 🙂

      • 4 months ago
        Anonymous

        morphmarket

        • 4 months ago
          Anonymous

          That anole looks suspiciously chameleon-like.
          Are the morphers gene splicing these lil nibbas?

      • 4 months ago
        Anonymous

        >i on the other hand would set an example for everyone and be totally different 🙂
        Don't be a c**t. If I had a bunch of money and free time I would set up a reptile breeding operation, but alas I don't so I need to be content with my cheap guppies and dwarf frogs.

        Because
        >A) short-sighted people get animals they shouldn't with absolutely no obligations to do anything with them
        >B) rich people who buy animals don't give a shit about breeding, they want display animals to jerk off to in front of their friends
        It doesn't just apply to individuals, either. There are organizations that call themselves "zoos" that have done this shit before too, not just with reptiles.

        Apparently there's a single zoo in the US with a pair of mature giant scrub pythons, yet they haven't bred them after years of having them

        There was a guy who imported a group of pic related wall lizards from Europe not knowing they were ESA listed (a moronic law that only applies to the USA, not internationally like CITES). They got confiscated from him and sent to some organization where of course they'll just sit there as display animals instead of him who was an actual breeder.

        • 4 months ago
          Anonymous

          >Don't be a c**t.
          What? I was talking about me and being serious. I would be different. Hell, I almost want to do what you said right now but I live in the middle of nowhere with shitty animal laws and importing any kind of animal will probably get me in trouble or they’ll just take them away from me like that guy

          • 4 months ago
            Anonymous

            Sorry, the smiley face made me think you were being sarcastic. Yeah the situation is shit and people take advantage of it to charge as much as they can for the animals.
            I'm planning on getting a group of fire belly toads in the near future because nobody in my area breeds them, but I need to get past the initial cost of $40 for a single frog that used to be $6 in the early 2000s. I have an idea of how I can bring that price down.

  8. 4 months ago
    Anonymous

    I'd rather they go extinct than they getting SMASHED and SLAMMED

  9. 4 months ago
    Anonymous

    Depends why it is endangered.
    A lot of these smaller things are endangered because they have a really stupid and bad way that they eat or breed and any miniscule disruption completely snowballs into oblivion for them.

    If it's hard to breed it or feed it, it's not a viable pet trade option.

    • 4 months ago
      Anonymous

      chuck

  10. 4 months ago
    Anonymous

    Why would anyone want one when Lygodactylus williamsi exists?

    • 4 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Lygodactylus Williams
      Doesn't he play point guard for the Pacers ?

  11. 4 months ago
    Anonymous

    >and is considered severely endangered.
    Everything I’ve seen has their status as “near threatened”. It is pretty though

  12. 4 months ago
    Anonymous

    Has anyone even seen them or reported on them in recent times? The only articles I can find are from 2012 - 2013, over a decade ago.

    • 4 months ago
      Anonymous

      inaturalist has a sighting from last year

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