The pet and animal community.
When somebody makes it obvious that they're ban evading the mods tend to rangeban the person for a few weeks.
Have fun with that.
Wonder if we will successfully kill off every lion and tiger? Hoping for that end result.
What the fuck happened with Tigers post WW2?
we used to rule the world
The leopard map is wrong because there are still leopards in India
Shit you’re right my bad
i am surprised to know that there are still cheetahs in iran
so did lions and tigers coexist in india?
Do we have an idea of their interactions?
Yes, I think lions won often but they might have been stronger lions than the modern cuck lions
i wasn't talking about who would win in a 1 on 1.
>Do we have an idea of their interactions?
How did leopards and mountain lions manage to avoid that?
By being smaller
Mountain lions & leopards are smaller, so can get by on smaller prey; the smaller prey animals have been less effected by human livestock & crop growing.
Leopards are smarter than the other great cats, they also have better hearing etc than humans, so they can just hide in brush when humans come along, and steal food from human villages etc. Similar to how crows adapt to humans existing.
Mountain lions don't have their habitat compromised by humans to the same extent as other large cats, and also do not hunt livestock to such a large extent that the local humans engage in extermination campaigns against them.
Damn, Jaguars actually get fucking mogged by their cousins hard.
Yeah but where it lives jaguar is King
everyone's mentioned that leopards and mountain lions are smaller, and therefore can live off prey that's smaller than what lion prides or tigers need, but leopards also eat their prey in a way that's safer than other big cats.
they take their kills up into trees so they can eat more of it with a lesser chance of being bullied by scavengers like hyenas.
mountain lions in their current ranges are just in areas that tend to be difficult for large populations of humans do livestock ranching, so there's no need to kill them for hunting livestock. they used to cover the entire continental united states, but were extirpated from everywhere east of the rockies except florida for a reason.
But i thought Russia has tigers?
and the map confirms
They do, just only in the northeast purple part
They both still got BTFO'd. Cougars used to range across the entire eastern USA but got decimated by colonists and now only a tiny population remains in the Everglades. The ones in the west have been expanding eastwards though, so they may come back in our lifetime.
Its so over for Mufacels
if you are pro-lion this is coal if you are anti-lion this is a gem.
>As a keystone species and apex predators, lions are crucial to the habitats they occupy. Without lions, disease spread is likely across species, and vast savanna grassland ecosystems would disintegrate into dysfunctional, barren landscapes impacting all life within.
what??? there are still paki lions???
or indian whatever
Yes, in the Gir National Park in India. There is like 700 remaining individuals but the population is increasing because they are seriously protected.
I don't get the issue. There's a cat now in almost every home.
housecats dont even compare
At what cost?
They are extremely stupid and incompetent compared to their wild ancestors, and that's saying something since it's the cat that was as close to the bottom of the food chain as cats get. The wild ancestors of housecats are the cats other cats eat. We purposefully domesticated them because they looked cute and made shit like this. Prior to that they were just the weak ones that could only subsist off the hordes of vermin that live in human settlements.
Kind of like how dogs are the manlet omega wolves that got kicked out of their packs and ended up only avoiding starvation because humans thought they were pretty enough to get handouts and there was a lot of garbage and fat, dumb vermin running around. Human civilization is like this terrible environment where everything that enters evolves to be inferior.
>Human civilization is like this terrible environment where everything that enters evolves to be inferior.
you know brainlet isn't a literal term right? it just means one's a dumbass
and incidentally, you're a dumbass
if they're so smart why did they go extinct?
Because they got completely fixated on pessimist philosophy and figured their survival had no greater purpose
Neanderthals in general were as smart or smarter than Cro-Magnons, but they were social retards and couldn't communicate/organize nearly as well.
By which metric?
they actually left earth and are exploring the stars
Your pic just proved my phone is worse than the average home PC from the 1980s
Brain size isn't the only factor here. Studies revealed that the neanderthal brain was a lot less vascularized than ours which suggest a smoother brain than ours.
The first domestic dogs were sighthounds bred for hunting over 6000 years ago.
Dogs were always a benefit to humanity while cats were pretty much useless. Inb4 "muh pest control" that cats are absolutely useless for.
Cats job is to look useful while not doing anything except looking vaguely like an infant so humans feed and worship it due to their instincts. Technically they are brood parasites.
they're cute. that's all what they need to be lmao
>they're cute. that's all what they need to be lmao
fuck off fag
>Inb4 "muh pest control" that cats are absolutely useless for.
why yes they are working perfectly as pest control, you just don't have any proof, do you?
yes I have tried it
people thousands year ago wouldn't domesticate useless obligate predator animal for cuteness, that is for sure
People would domesticate a small, apparently harmless predator for cuteness if it *looked like* it was helping and keeping it around didn't seem to cost anything. In fact I believe cats and dogs were initially domesticated solely for their cuteness/friendliness because humans are naturally empathetic to anything that reminds them of infants and women and will give them food, but also won't tolerate the beady eyed, mean ones, resulting in selection for domestic traits.
Cats subsist off vermin but don't reduce their numbers. Trophic levels, basic ecology. We created an ideal environment for rats and mice to breed in so if you throw cats in, their populations still grow. Like wolves never drove deer to extinction naturally. However, when you cut down most of the forests and artifically overpopulate wolves, they can get close enough for human hunting to finish the job.
But also, you don't need wolves for that, because when the environment is destroyed human hunting can both start and finish the job, without any other animals to worry about. That's what alberta did, and people who expect cats to work have not been successful at anything but eliminating the beneficial native bird and reptile species that we destroyed the habitats for while we were artifically overpopulating cats.
Dogs are useless too.
From the moment we understood how bait worked, we never needed dogs to hunt. We hunted with the dogs because we liked dogs. It was a sport, recreation, from the start. Hunting with dogs has never been an efficient survival method and all people who used dogs to hunt mostly relied on agriculture for food.
Humans 100% keep domestic animals around for cuteness and most of the utility larp is cope because humans don't want to admit to trying to enjoy life. Humans can do a better job than sheepdogs if they build a fence first. Humans can do a better job than guard dogs if you give them pointy sticks. FFS.
This entire post is vitriolic cope, detached from reality.
One of the last purely hunter-gatherer tribes in Africa, the Hadza, frequently use dogs to run their prey into corners and up trees then shoot them with bows
Dogs are incredibly useful for tracking and cornering prey
You are a catcel
>while we were artifically overpopulating cats.
It's human instinct to prefer something that looks good than not. This is why we own cats despite being almost useless. The solution is to keep keep them indoor and neuter.
>feral cats and wild predators are the same as domesticated animal
So it's settled then, dogs are completely useless, they kill cattle and sometimes humans, just look at those studies on wolves etology
Don't whatabout if your whatabout doesn't help your point retard
Not really a problem if we apply the same policy to cats and dogs. Unleashed, uncollared animals are shot for trespassing and causing trouble. Leashed ones are peacably removed along with their owner and collared ones are captured if not actively causing harm. However they can kill whatever on their owners property.
>And sometimes humans
Even with the dogs people literally bred to kill humans, they're statistically safer than bicycles and touching public doorknobs. If we eliminated dogs that were purposefully bred to be dangerous dog attacks would kill fewer people than cats. Meanwhile toxo is way, way deadlier than dogs and a harder problem to tackle due to the majority of cat owners having a hand in it, vs relatively unpopular and readily identified dog breeds, so, uh, priorities dude.
>Meanwhile toxo is way
Do you have a source for this? Last time I checked meat is the #1 issue with toxo
Last time I checked, humans HAVE to eat a small amount of meat to be as healthy as possible, and toxo is also present in fruit and vegetables, being a tapeworm. There's no reason food poisoning should be so deadly and we could eliminate this problem by keeping an animal indoors instead of having it be useless/destructive outdoors.
Like we already did with dogs.
>uh do you have a SOIrce
Okay redditor here's your heckin soience
>. Of the estimated 750 deaths caused by toxoplasmosis in the United States each year, 375 are thought to occur from eating raw or undercooked meat; this makes toxoplasmosis the third-leading cause of US foodborne death
So even if you only count the vegfags it's still way deadlier than "dogs", which are really like, a few obvious culprits, not exactly border collies.
okay so that source just pretty much confirms that meat is the main reason for toxo
Cats are meat, yes.
375 is what of 750? That's right, 50%. And meat is something we NEED to eat. But even if you avoided it and were a malnourished fuck, there would still be over 10x more fatal toxo cases than pitbull deaths.
Then you have to take notes with the unwashed vegetables and the other variables. so yeah. meat is #1 cause
>Don't whatabout if your whatabout doesn't help your point retard
You are trying to prove a claim about domesticated cats with some study on feral cats and some blabbering about wolves and ecology, like ecology even applies to domesticated animal. What about that?
The claim that dogs=wolves is obviously false, I've made it specifically to demostrate how your argumentation is flawed, but alas, it is hard to you to undestand even analogies.
Domesticated cats are cats that do not leave their owners property. Because they hunting instincts that can target birds, really, it should be that any cat that is outside at all is considered feral, as surely as you shouldn't be loosing greyhounds in your backyard in NZ because they'll kill kiwis and kakapos. If your cat leaves your property unsupervised, it is a feral cat. If your dog leaves your property unsupervised, it is a feral dog.
>Wolves aren't dogs
That was an example for how predators function in ecology when the goal is exterminating a prey species. that is, they don't exterminate them.
>That was an example for how predators function in ecology when the goal is exterminating a prey species. that is, they don't exterminate them
well should we stop worrying about cats exterminating birds and other shit? Because you see, wild wolves do not exterminate the populations of animals they hunt and which were evolving in as prey&predator for eons, that's how ecology works, and we sure as hell could apply it for cats which aren't even reliant on pests as a food as they are fed by owner.
>well should we stop worrying about cats exterminating birds and other shit?
No. Read it all again. The only time wolves come close to exterminating deer is when humans destroy the deers habitat and artificially increase wolf numbers. This is what we did with birds and cats. Only birds are much more fragile than deer, so it actually worked. Mammals are more resilient due to not being gimped by eggs and building nests in trees (lmao) like songbirds. You can wipe out a generation of songbirds with a stiff breeze.
Cats hunt for instinct not for hunger btw.
>Vegan tries to shift goalposts
On the other hand vegans are like "I need to eat raw or undercooked veggies because they have more nutrients which I am not getting because I dont eat meat". And muh ideal world where everything is cooked to shit is irrelevant. People are not always perfect, but we can reduce toxo cases significantly by getting rid of outdoor cats, which has literally no downsides.
That article cites some ancient discussion on unnamed villages without any actual proof, and it only touches rats, which is not the only pest, so this is moving the goal post even if the claim is true. Yeah to control rats within the city with wild predators is not the same as control mice in a house with domestic cat, I can't believe i need to spell it to you. Even if i agree feral cats can't control rats in Chicago, that does not disprove that domesticated cat is useful a spest control. Same as terrier failure to keep the hens in the yard is not a proof that herding dogs are not effective at all.
So do provide some proof or fuck off with all that... err... whataboutism, yeah, that's the word.
Mice and rats still enter homes with cats. The much lauded "scent deterrent" has been proven to wear off in two months, and then increases the rate at which mice breed as a way of instinctively compensating for predation. No toxo needed.
Cats are not capable enough hunters to eliminate mice or rats. They just look like they're helping while their prey avoids being seen and fucks furiously. Cats are simply not intelligent, aggressive or dedicated enough to do terrier stuff like dig up nests and kill all the babies. They are energy conserving, self serving predators, like a dumber version of the natural one. If you get rid of the cats you have bolder pests, and if you have cats you have shyer pests. But cats don't actually take care of the pest problem. They never have. They are just cute and appear to help so people are fond of them.
Not even a vegan gay. The fact that cats aren't a big issue when it comes to toxo is what I originally stated. literally nothing
Toxo literally would not exist without outdoor cats.
However, it is not urine or not only urine which scares the mice, as "outdoor" cats piss outside which is one the reason people keep them as outdoor. Actually, cat urine is appealing for mice with toxo, was the study controlled for toxo and toxo-free mice is unclear.
>The only time wolves come close to exterminating deer is when humans destroy the deers habitat and artificially increase wolf numbers. This is what we did with birds and cats.
Cool so extermination possibility is established, thanks. Although "contol" does not imply "100% eradiction" and i have never claimed cats eradicate mice or anything, or that it goes for nests and so on.
As long as cat keep mice away from the house which oftenly does not have spaces for nests and shit.
>As long as cat keep mice away from the house which oftenly does not have spaces for nests and shit.
They really don't. That's the problem. They make mice avoid routes that cross through open space basically. They don't stop mice from nesting near the house. They just mooch off the rodent population if it's there, at a rate too low to reduce it. It's like saying your pest control is totally working when the cockroach population is just rising slower.
>Meanwhile toxo is way, way deadlier than dogs
>moving the goalpost
Cats and toxo is pretty much insignificant, while dog attacks are more common and fatal
toxo: 750 deaths a year in the US alone, 375 estimated if meat is excluded. we're not counting the third world here because their sanitation and animal control is abysmal beyond belief to the point that cats are a major rabies vector as well and you can't touch a patch of dirt without touching a million parasite eggs.
"DOGS!": in modern countries without rabid strays fucking everywhere, it's usualy like the US, where we have 49 deaths from the usual breeds that were created explicitly for killing people and 1 death ruled a tragic accident/genuinely the owner's fault by some entirely random large dog.
the logical course of action is clear
we keep the cats indoors
and if a dog was bred to bite people, we kill it and all of its spawn
no questions asked. no comments needed.
So it's insignificant since those % are basically saying that there's various more causes of toxo so yeah
>As long as cat keep mice away from the house which oftenly does not have spaces for nests and shit.
*the effect of pest control is higher that 0.
1: outdoor cats are feral cats.
2: that article is about cats in general sucking at pest control, including ship cats, house cats, and barn cats. the cats always turn out to have done nothing but make the rats better at hiding.
>cats only prey on juvenile rats. the adults are too large and dangerous
>cats hunting success rate and resulting predation rate is borderline pathetic. they are not the wild cat with an 80% success rate.
>cats are not able to get to where rats nest
>cats can not reduce rat populations
feral cats are domesticated animals. when your cat jumps over your fence it is officially a feral cat. we treat dogs like this and in most places in the US you can legally shoot a golden retriever for climbing over a waist-height fence and claim you felt threatened.
>when your cat jumps over your fence it is officially a feral cat
Oh sorry I didn't realize it is law&legal affairs board. I guess you need to provide a court ruling orecendent on a question of cat and pest control (this is sarcasm, please don't).
How burgers are not third world country?
Get educated sonny.
more like uncalled wildlife killing
domestic cats need to be banned worldwide, they're bringing so many species of small animals to extinction
liking them because they're "cute" is for retards
Holy fuck, is this schizo in every thread? We get it, your aunt's cat scratched you, ya sperg.
>PERSON HAVE DIFFERENT OPINION THAN GRUG
>ALL SAME PERSON
godammit /qa/ was so great
have a nice day
Italy most certainly had lions.
It's like that for almost every large animal
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