How bad is it? 13yo dog. Liver tumor and enlarged heart. Vet says we should euthanize the dog somewhere next week but she still seems lively, 'happy' except for being slower at walking and breathing more heavily occasionally during rest moments (this means pain/uncomfortableness right?). He said yesterday my dog has max a month to live (in suffering) and we should euthanize her (he implied the sooner the better).
Issue is my dog still seems alright, I think. Still gets very excited for treats, tail wagging, barking, runs for small distances to the door, to people. Crawls up to you on bed to get petted in the morning (this morning 28-05 she did this too). Jumps on the couch or bed. Becomes her 'old self' again.
So my dog going to worsen suddenly at some point within the week or two weeks? It's waiting for that moment right?
So my question is will it be gradually spanned over weeks?
Or will it be very sudden?
Or is this impossible to say, different for each dog depending how bad their liver tumor is. Does anyone know how it will go..?
We were given two pills, one for the edema and one for anti-nauseous.
Is there no hope? The main problem is the liver tumor. Vet said her heart is decent (albeit still bad and crushing her lungs).
She is right now being examinated at this special animal hospital. Possibly tumor removal....? Soon I'll hear how bad it is.. If there is any hope left..
Your dog is a small breed and could easily live until 17 and beyond.
I'd say listen to what the second doc says, if you can trust them. It's very hard to find competent doctors in general.
Holy shit good news. I have the report. My dog isn't doing as bad and in great suffering as the first vet said. She's fine except for a heart issue, heart murmurs?
The bill was over a thousand at this special animal clinic but the results of the biopsy from the liver tumor should be in soon. When they checked her blood levels they seem normal even the one that tests for liver failure. Only urine CREA or something tested in the bad zone but thats because the first vet gave her those edema urine pills that make her pee and drink a lot more.
The reasons her behaviour changed these two weeks was because of her heart not being stable?
I'm somewhat happy and relieved even if my dogs heart isn't doing all that well or is enlarged. My dog doesn't need to be euthanized at all this week. We only need to check her breathing occasionaly if she breathes more than 32x times a minute and she is going to take a medicine called Vetmedin. The 2nd opinion vetenarians also told us to stop using Corporal. Medicine she has been using for years since that can damage organs? Or kidneys.
I don't fully understand why the first vet told us she might die very soon and that we may needed to euthanize her this week. He didn't do a good job but my dad probably misinformed him when he asked the questions about my dogs symptoms Or maybe this vets practice is just too small or something.
The tumor on my dogs liver is 3cm. And they disagreed with the first vets xray notations. Liver is not large at all or his description of it being 'pale-ish' isn't something he could know? It's not going to rupture aswell.
What a terrible week. 1300 euros but at least I know my dog is doing okay (probably) and won't die anytime soon.
>Only urine CREA or something tested in the bad zone but thats because the first vet gave her those edema urine pills that make her pee and drink a lot more.
And those 2nd opinion vetenarians said he shouldn't have given those pills at all since she doesn't have any leaking fluid in her body or something?
>Issue is my dog still seems alright
My dog seemed alright up until 3 days before I had to put her down (t-cell lymphoma, was receiving chemo) and those last 3 days looked like hell on earth for her
She wasn't responsive, wouldn't eat, wouldn't look at me, if i touched her she cried
Don't let your dog suffer, just do it
>just do it
Yes in your case of course but still isn't time for my dog I think.
How old did your dog get? What kind of breed too?
dont wait too long.
had the vet put down our dog a week too late. his last couple days were sad and terrible and i will always regret not letting him go when he was still happy and clear eyed.
dont leave him alone, be in the room with him so the last thing he sees and hears is someone who he knows loves him.
then cry your eyes out, like i still do sometimes.
Dogs hate vets. Don't let his last moments be with a vet holding him and making him nervous. Let nature take its course and be by his side when he goes.
>(this means pain/uncomfortableness right?
We're not veterinarians.
>we should euthanize her
If you can't provide a painless extension of life, I don't know what else you can do besides euthanasia. :'(
>We were given two pills
More pills for pain or sedation would be nice.
Basically I'm asking if my dog dies because of the liver tumor, will it be a slow decline the upcoming weeks or will it be sudden death at any possible moment.
He's constantly suffering either way.
Could be either with more or less equal probability.
Surprised that no one has mentioned the dog's physical size, how to treat a terminal condition and when to pull the plug to avoid suffering depend a lot on that...in my experience a big dog is likely to have a more drastic shift and with that come risks of a really traumatic event like collapsing but not enough to die quickly, so even if it happens when you are there and not out shopping or something you still have to scoop him up in that deteriorated state and move him to the vet to be euthanized while he's probably in pain and confused and you have to decide quickly.
It's a shitty way to say goodbye, when he could go under his own power and still be relatively happy and not have to experience all that trauma. Even better is to get a vet to come and do it at home, especially if there's other pets.
Not to say you should do it this instant, I'd get another opinion but having done it both ways waiting until he's had a serious event is the less attractive choice and doesn't make his life better.
Being able to keep them from suffering is a blessing, it's never easy but it's easier than knowing he went out in pain when he didn't have to.
She is 8kg, maltesepoo bizon freeze and some other mutt race. 13.5 years old.
>It's a shitty way to say goodbye, when he could go under his own power and still be relatively happy and not have to experience all that trauma
You mean euthanise now when she is doing okay instead of limp and unable to walk? Because if my dog were to walk into the vet office right now, she'd probably start greeting everyone, wag her tail and sniff around. I don't know what to do. I think I am too selfish and want to let her live until a serious event happens, a suffering episode actually starts and obviously not getting better. Maybe the vet is in the wrong...? And my dog still has two or three months left she can live with not that much suffering...?
Not sure how fast the livertumor will destroy my dog, I can't find any other experiences on the internet that mention it. But it must go slowly right? Can a liver tumor you see in the x-ray photo tear down my dog within 1 week or is it usually over the course of a month or 2 months, 6 months. Don't know what kind of tumor it is too. If she has the most common, the hepatic HCC one then she can get into a very acute decline quickly. Not sure if the tumor can rupture.
I don't think the vet considered surgery becaus he said my dog is 8 months pass expiration date. And 13 is a nice age for a dog. Is surgery and anesthesia really going to kill my dog...? If they'd remove the tumor and she'd have an extra year to live I would gladly accept and go into debt for it.
>"Location of the hepatocellular carcinoma may also result in the different survival times. Dogs having the tumor surgically removed from the left lobe had median survival times of 1,460 days, dogs with the tumor located centrally had survival times of 795 days and dogs with the tumor on the right liver lobes had 365 days. These variances can be due to surgical difficulties and variances in vasculature based on location."
This is cope. Dogs can go downhill very fast given they can't communicate how they're feeling. Had this with my GSD, if their condition is bad enough that we can tell they're in pain then it's probably too late and you've caused your friend to suffer because you wanted a few minutes more. Quit making excuses, get a second Vets opinion, and if the news is bad then take responsibility and do what needs to be done.
Also as other anons have stated surgery and anesthesia are incredibly hard on dogs over 10 and can kill them on the table.
Hope for the best for both of you.
>anesthesia are incredibly hard on dogs over 10 and can kill them on the table.
I researched this on Google and this seems to be a common believe of decades ago but I saw some articles that claimed anasthetics and surgery for older pets have greatly improved the past decade and surgery tumor removals can be done.
Is it really that bad for dogs over 10 years old? Especially for internal tumor removal. We decided to go monday for second opinion. I don't want to believe the vet knew my dog had a liver tumor within 5 seconds.
>can go downhill very fast
I was just wondering how it might go if a dog has a liver tumor slow decline as in months on end. Can it be a year? Or acute decline anytime this week as in 4 hours for example or 3 days maybe less? If it suddenly starts when we are asleep can we discover her dead in the morning or is the death process far slower meaning she won't pass during the night that quickly? I keep waking up and checking her but she seems fine and breathing normally. It's not cope. But it seems it depends on the tumor type how her final days would envelop. The most common type of tumor would most likely destroy her body within a couple of days. The other type of tumors spread throughout the body to the lungs and all the organs. These ones are to slowly decline her depending how agressive the tumor is.
My dog is still doing okay, she just jumped on my bed and wants me to pet her like we do every morning. Kinda playish. Ate everything too today in the morning. 13 is a decent age but all my dogs family and aunt uncles, her mom and dad lived to 16, 17 on average due to heart problems mostly.
If there still is hope for my dog I would go after it instead. An extra year or 100 days. Of course if she suffers make euthanize meeting.
My last dog had lung cancer and you could eventually see the pain in his eyes just walking.
He loved walks so much, it suddenly not being something he wanted to dl anymore was absolutely obvious.
Was standing near the pond and I legitimately think he considered drowning himself.
He walked into the water up to his shoulders, stopped, and stared at the water.
>Dogs have a short term memory of 50-70 seconds
>can't contemplate suicide fully because they keep forgetting what they were thinking about
You'll put it down once you know it's time, enjoy your last moments with your animal. Everyone on Wauf has had to have an animal put down and it sucks, but you have the luxury or vet treatment. You have time to prepare and cope before it happens, and do so. It sucks. Make sure you're in the room when they do it, it's cathartic. Or it was for me because my dog wasn't "healthy" in the sense your's is when he died. You could probably get him cremated too, which I did cause I had the option. Nice wood box, nice and safe, still know he's there etc. Good luck op just give it a week or two, feel your heart out.
This. But have a vet come to your house and do it there. That's what we did when it was time for my dog. I think she was far more at ease, being at home, rather than in some office room somewhere. It was still very difficult of course. Tearing up a little just writing this.
Can’t do surgery to take out the cancer? Or at least some of it?
Anesthesia is hard on older dogs, and there's a good chance that the surgery and drugs will end up killing the dog.
You just have to use your best judgment OP. As long as your dog doesn't seem to be in pain and is eating, drinking, and pissing/shitting normally, and is happy, I would enjoy your time together and make his last days special.
Maybe make some calls and see if you can find an at home euthanasia service so it doesn't have to be done at a vet office where the stress and fear will be increased. With luck, your dog will go in his sleep, or have a sudden cardiac arrest and go out like flicking a light switch.
I feel terrible for you though, I've lost too many dogs in my lifetime and it never gets easier.
most dogs are very good at hiding pain until the absolute end. it's impossible to tell what will happen exactly with your dog - it might seem okay for a couple of weeks and then drop dead or it could be an obvious decline where you're spending more and more time each day dealing with its health issues. you could get a second opinion from another vet.
>it might seem okay for a couple of weeks and then drop dead or it could be an obvious decline where you're spending more and more time each day dealing with its health issues
.. same thing with liver tumors right? I am a low IQ pleb but I thought in this case with my dog since her liver has a tumor and the liver must be dysfunctional right? That means it will not work properly at filtering the toxins, or other harmful substances.
Meaning these toxins will build up in my dogs body (spread throughout even to her brain). So the decline will probably be obvious most likely? She'll get more and more nauseous. Her muscles will stop cooperating. Instead of dropping dead one day or one night she is asleep?
Unless that's not really the effect of liver tumors? Am I wrong?
"Some liver tumors make hormones that act on organs other than the liver. These hormones may cause: High blood calcium levels (hypercalcemia), which can cause nausea, confusion, constipation, weakness, or muscle problems. Low blood sugar levels (hypoglycemia), which can cause fatigue or fainting."
Everything is still going fine today with her just how she always is, only somewhat weaker at moments of the day and she doesn't finish eating everything in the morning so I give her more of the sausage treat I always give her instead since she has no problem gobbling that up.
Would you euthanize your grandmother or a human who is dying out on the street? I am tired of this shit meme, it's terrible. Until it becomes okay to kill ourselves medically I refuse to change my moral opinion on this. Let the dog die in a place surrounded by his home and loved ones. Instead people think it's humane to let them go as far as they can, unwilling to put up with the pain of seeing our supposed best friends die naturally.
People do occasionally euthanize their elderly though.
This is how they put my great grandfather down. To be fair, he was literally dying at the time anyway, but he was apparently in extreme pain.
Dying always seems painless in movies, but I guess it can't be pleasant to feel your organs literally shut down and die while you're still breathing.
>Until it becomes okay to kill ourselves medically
It is okay. Christian morality is the only thing holding society at large back from allowing it.
Abortion is literally voluntary euthanasia and I always defend my pro-choice stance that way. It's the most sound and rational argument and eliminates dysgenic traits in society in the most ethically sound way.
Your dog seems fine because it is not aware of its own mortality the way you are, and like most creatures, it has gotten used to pain and decrepitude with age.
If you looked at a video of your dog from 5 years ago, and had any heart, you'd go shoot it the next minute.
Don't let it keep suffering just because it doesn't seem too bad.
>If you looked at a video of your dog from 5 years ago, and had any heart, you'd go shoot it the next minute.
>Don't let it keep suffering just because it doesn't seem too bad.
Not applicable to the situation of my dog right now. I would not shoot my dog its not suffering greatly and even currently wagging its tail when I just looked at her and jumped next to me. She is obviously still alright for now and my family agrees. I just wonder how fast it will go downwards. If anyone here also has or had a dog with a liver tumor.
I don't get why you need to euthanize shit. Just let it die naturally. "Boo hoo it'll be in pain" bro life is pain.
Also, why pay some retard a gazillion dollars for that shit, be a man and put him down yourself like Of Mice and Men and save yourself the money. Death is a part of life and it's time you grew up and stopped being a bitch. Enjoy the time you got then move on, that's all you can do.
humanity in general has progressed past this
you're just a poor ass gorilla chimp
>EUTHANIZE LE DOG
You know your dog best, anon. If your judgement is that she's fine, you should go by that. However. Once you see signs of suffering you'll have to be honest with yourself.
You're psychotic, and your father is the Devil.
>You know your dog best, anon. If your judgement is that she's fine, you should go by that. However. Once you see signs of suffering you'll have to be honest with yourself
Thank you. I just wonder how it will go does anyone know how it works with a liver tumor. Will she suddenly succumb or will the toxins build day by day and she'll worsen slowly in weeks, months or just 1 week?
They got meme'd by the pet industry, westoids are fucked in the head.
Daily reminder it's illegal to euthanize humans, so why do we euthanize animals.
i had a dog with some kind of lymphoma that we treated with steroids until it was immediately obvious one day that he was too sick and needed to be put down
he just lost his will to live, i cooked him a slice of bacon and he wouldn't eat it
sorry op, losing a dog is among the worst inevitable things that can happen
just enjoy the little time you have left and give her lots of treats