Rhino is actually capable of royally fucking up dinosaurs even on the 6+ ton range. Elephants use actual tactics when they square off against rhinos, like by throwing rocks and branches at them to distract them because their horns are genuinely lethal to even an elephant.
And because dinos aren't even close to having the notion of same intelligence as Elephants, the only way they can harm is by going behind a rhino. Only a T. Rex would even stand a chance going against a rhino head to head.
these threads are (you) farms
just dont engage, the only constructive discussion we've had was in the first few iterations of this thread
OP is merely shitposting with how he constantly makes these threads
more food for thought:
"Long-bone circumference and weight in mammals, birds and dinosaurs" has tyrannosaurus rex at 4,500 kg
"The dinosaur heresies : new theories unlocking the mystery of the dinosaurs and their extinction" has it at 5,000 kg
"Gigantism and comparative life-history parameters of tyrannosaurid dinosaurs" has it at 5,000 kg
"Body mass, bone ''strength indicator'', and cursorial potential of Tyrannosaurus rex" has it at 6,000 kg
"A new method to calculate allometric length–mass relationships of dinosaurs" has it at 6,650.9 kg
"Mass Prediction in Theropod Dinosaurs" has it at 6,300 kg
people are always scrutinizing t. rex weight estimates with a fine tooth comb because it's a dinosaur, meanwhile nobody is talking about the upper estimate for p. namadicus being extremely liberal and based on extremely fragmentary remains that also happen to be lost and unverifiable
meanwhile upcoming papers are discussing t. rex specimen weighing up to 12 tons, and we're all gonna talk about it because at the end of the day, its a dinosaur, and dinosaurs are cooler than elephants
If we can have 170 ton sauropods we could have 50 ton theropods. Turns out what we thought were hard limits on terrestial life were not hard limits at all. In the end it is just paleontologists going "NOOO that's impossible" and then trying their damn hardest to explain away physical evidence.
The case of bruhathkayosaurus is an interesting one, they lived on an isolated island which would be current day india, yet they possibly grew to be larger than blue whales. This indicates a case of island gigantism, which then begs the question what predatory pressure caused them to grow so huge.
Not claiming that there were 50 ton theropods, rather that I will not be a giant asshole and dismiss it because of some ((science)) gnosis.
You're talking as if evolution is not a thing. Yes you cannot take a 5 ton theropod and upscale it to 40 tons, but there is no reason to think it is impossible for such a large theropod to evolve to such sizes.
3 months ago
Anonymous
The initial argument was about a mystery t-rex that was supposedly that size, if there was a different theropod that evolved to that size then it would not just look like an upscaled t-rex
3 months ago
Anonymous
I've never made that argument, that was some other anon. I made the case that there might have been such mega theropods and gave a reason due to bruhathkayosaurus possibly evolved to it's gargantuan proportions due to predatory pressure.
Estimates based on literally a single bone are never valid.
Bruhathkayosaurus doesn't exist in any practical sense. Until more material is found, there is no point on speculating about its size.
Otherwise you're going to run into a Deinocheirus situation or worse.
How did it get that big without any real defense?
Like, aurochs were huge, but they have massive horns. Bison are the same. Elephants have tusks. Hippos have massive jaws. Rhinos have horns. Etc.
So what was the trick for Hadrosaurs?
They don't seem to have had much in the way of defense at all.
i took the liberty of making this. regardless of your thoughts on bush elephant vs rex you have to admit steppe mammoth bulls would make a t-rex turn tail and run away in a head to head confrontation
T-rex was built for 1v1ing other giant dinosaurs. Elephant is fucked. Maybe if the elephant had thick armored hide and a powerful tail… like a dinosaur, it would have a shot. Elephants are only big shot bad asses in modern day because the next biggest animal is 1/4 its size. Suddenly you have huge predator that’s even bigger than the elephant? T-rex was definitely stronger pound for pound too. No contest. Elephants would go extinct in a Cretaceous environment.
>T-rex was built for 1v1ing other giant dinosaurs.
Built to take on slow, retarded Sauropods maybe.
An African Elephant is basically a massive modern day Ceratopsian.
Can't say who will in a 1-v-1, but it's not gonna be easy for the T-rex.
> Suddenly you have huge predator that’s even bigger than the elephant
FFS I blame Jurassic Park for this shit. A t-rex is not Godzilla.
T-rexes aren't bigger than Bush Elephants.
The average rex is around 4-6 tons. That's around the same weight as a male African Elephant. I think their max weight is similar too.
Wtf are you yammering about? T-rexes preyed on shit way more dangerous than saggy, baggy, defenseless elephants. A t-Rex wasn’t Godzilla? Wtf does that mean? Is a lion Godzilla because it can kill a buffalo wtf are you talking about this is just a lion except it has a mouth big enough to bite an elephant’s head off.
Again t-rex was an animal built to prey on shit like elephants except way more formidable versions. Elephants are big badasses because nothing can prey on them so they don’t need armored hide or a huge tail or any of that shit. Like, an alephant? I don’t get it, it’s literally a worse triceratops without tough, scaly hide, a powerful tail to defend its flanks and a bony frill protecting its neck. Like lmfao why on fucking Earth do you think herbivorous dinosaurs looked like tanked out dragons? Because if they didn’t have tough armor and all this other shit protecting their necks and vital spots they’d get fucking killed like an elephant would. A t-rex would probably just bite its trunk off.
shit like this is what he's talking about where you're assuming it was some otherworldly dragon creature instead of an animal. if rexy were to look at a bull elephant it would probably not confront it. looks too much like a grown triceratops. if you're talking about predation then yes the tyrannosaurus will prey on the bush elephant but even then it will target females, juveniles and inexperienced males
then you have constant posts every single thread of this flavor saying "yeah t rexes were 10,000 kilograms and 16 feet on average, were smarter than great apes and traveled in huge packs which outnumber elephants bro" then someone asks for proof and bam, silence
A T-rex has the strength, mobility, stealth and size to view elephants as prey. You're getting all haughty, asking if T-rex is some sort of dragon, completely blind to your own assessment of an elephant as some sort of rampaging behemoth that would trample and spear a predator near twice it's size. Basically, you're projecting your own dramatizations on others, you're the one making a charicature of an animal.
That an 8-10 ton predator would prey on a 5-6 ton herbivore is a foregone conclusion. >muh muh 10 ton elephant
we have a couple dozen t-rex specimens, 42ft and 8 tons is statistically more likely to represent a species average than maxima, unless you're next going to argue that we by chance dug up multiple 1:10 000 specimens. A T-rex as freakishly oversized as a 10 ton elephant might have been 16 tons 50ft long, going for species maximums is a dumb argument so please don't make it.
i straight up said tyrannosaurus would prey on elephants. if you got this much wrong then i'm not reading the rest of your post
3 months ago
Anonymous
Bullshit, you said a t-rex would prey on young and weak, baked into that is the idea that a rex would shy away from a bull elephant, which is what I addressed. You just got pissy that your hypocrisy got illuminated to you and as a massive cope, acted like you did not read it.
3 months ago
Anonymous
as they would, because they're still large animals with a lot of meat and easier to manage than a bull, every predator will logically target smaller specimens. stop being a clown
3 months ago
Anonymous
Now we're strawmaning. Try to read my post again you mouthbreathing midwit.
3 months ago
Anonymous
simmer down, birdbrain
3 months ago
Anonymous
That's... not a strawman argument. Ironically, you made one yourself just now
3 months ago
Anonymous
It's a strawman as what was addressed by me to you was your implied notion that a Rex would not engage a bull elephant, such as if it happened upon a lone bull it would not attempt predation, rather it would only seek out young or smaller individuals.
Instead of following up on that point, you bypassed it and focused on a point I was not making.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Not everyone in this thread is the same person, you effeminate posting, gibbering schizoid
Plz post models, articles, studies or literally anything to justify the average T-Rex being 12,000 kilograms (twice the size of a Bull elephant). You’ve been a coward and scoundrel for 4 threads in a row, making these asinine claims of T-Rex fighting male, grown Triceratops and Sauropods like in Mortal Kombat, head on and without fear, and without dying, without anything to show for it. You will post the proof of your claims, now
3 months ago
Anonymous
>near twice the size >twice the size
read better. Beyond that, that was my first post in this thread, I don't give a shit what you have argued with some other guy, nor will I bother to find out.
3 months ago
Anonymous
8,000 is not “near” 12,000. Articulate yourself better and quit being a snarky bitch. Post the studies, articles or any iota of proof, because that’s the very least the elephant fags mustered up
3 months ago
Anonymous
8-10 tons is near double of 5-6 tons you goalpost shifting pussyfooter. You're refusing to engage on how you're right to say that anyone looking at an 9 ton predator taking on a 5,5 ton (using averages of the numbers here) herbivore are equating the rex to a goddamn dragon, yet you're not the one doing the selfsame thing by saying the elephant could see of a Rex. You're deliberately acting dumb to avoid engaging on the points you're just flat out wrong about, instead you're arguing strawmen.
3 months ago
Anonymous
"Average" for a bull would be 5,200kg - 6,900kg and that's a mean. That comes from "Shoulder height, body mass, and shape of proboscideans" which was posted several threads ago. Meanwhile you're not posting any sources or proof. You will post it now, you rancid bitch
3 months ago
Anonymous
A rex's weight is still almost double 5200-6900
3 months ago
Anonymous
Proof? Models? Papers? Articles? Textbooks?
3 months ago
Anonymous
Sources? for what? That T-rex weight estimates are at 8-10 tons? I assumed that was common knowledge at this point after the volumetric studies based of 3d models. But if you cannot be arsed to dig it up yourself, here:
Also, 5,200 - 6,900 is 5-6 tons, just as 8,200-10,900 is 8-10 tons. Not sure what you were trying to archieve here.
3 months ago
Anonymous
That's all I wanted to "achieve", some fucking proof
3 months ago
Anonymous
hate to butt in but https://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/dinosaurs-ancient-fossils/theropod-biomechanics/the-problem-of-size#:~:text=of%20one%20very%20big%20extinct%20animal%2C%20Tyrannosaurus%20rex.&text=The%20most%20famous%20of%20the,as%20the%20largest%20African%20elephant. says it's 5,000 kg to 7,000 kg which averages out to the same as a bull african elpehant according to the study in but if we wanna talk proboscideans i wanna remind y'all of
https://i.imgur.com/5xy0Lf9.png
i took the liberty of making this. regardless of your thoughts on bush elephant vs rex you have to admit steppe mammoth bulls would make a t-rex turn tail and run away in a head to head confrontation
which would be a 11,000 kg MEAN with a maximum over 19,000 kg
3 months ago
Anonymous
That's not a study, it's a "factbox" of unknown validity or age, might as well ask for the source this "source" used. I've already posted a link to a recent volumetric study of the mass of these animals.
Seems like this is some "my animal is cooler than yours" sort of deal, which is just dumb. I get it you love elephants or whatever, but it is irksome when people unironically thinks that a predator almost twice the mass of a herbivore would be unable to pray on it, even more so when proponents of such a silly idea think it that drawing such obvious conclutions must mean you think the animal is some sort of kaiju or dragon.
3 months ago
Anonymous
now that's just projection. i felt it was worth bringing up because 5000-6000 kilos was the weight when i was young. and because i think steppe mammoths would easily bully a t-rex
3 months ago
Anonymous
In general predators prey on animals much smaller or weaker than themselves. Fair fights are extremely risky.
3 months ago
Anonymous
The papers I’m finding that talk about the maximum weight for any proboscideans in the ranges you postulate are using allometric curves and statistical analysis to imagine a creature that size, which is the same methodology used to posit 20 ton 17+meter Tyrannosaurs. I’m not interested in either of these figures, this is “movie monster” imagineering, not verifiable evidence.
And unfortunately, the largest Paleoloxodon fragments are rotting in a basement somewhere because no one’s been able to find them to verify their WWII era descriptions in the last 60 years, so we can’t even say with authority that the animals Larramendi is basing these statistical analysis movie monsters on are even reliably described themselves.
3 months ago
Anonymous
it's just cool to think about proboscideans and theropods in a brawl situation like when gwangi fought an asiatic elephant. but i don't see any 20,000 kg tyrannosaurus estimates anywhere, most are comfortably in the 5-7 or 8-9 (metric) ton range. the more the rex's size is bloated i think the more screwed over it gets by the lower oxygen levels nowadays relative to the cretaceous
3 months ago
Anonymous
What can an elpehant actually do though? If you hug its hind legs it can't reach you with its truck, and its too sluggish to get away while you repeatedly pommel it from behind. If you stand to the side of its hind legs then it won't even be able to hit you with a back kick. If it raises its leg to perform a stomp then all you have to do is back off until it finishes its slam, then move back in to continue punching.
3 months ago
Anonymous
Do you even read posts or do you just shout angrily into the void? >we have a couple dozen t-rex specimens, 42ft and 8 tons is statistically more likely to represent a species average than maxima,
The current T.Rex Maxima is either the Cope specimen (BHI6248), conservatively estimable at over 12,000 kg, and another specimen currently being published on might push that maxima even further.
>if rexy were to look at a bull elephant it would probably not confront it. looks too much like a grown triceratops
So it looks too much like its primary prey item?
The elephant looking like something the rex killed and ate for a living would deter it...how exactly?
because tyrannosaurus didn't go "come at me bro" and charge triceratops directly. you are aware of that?
3 months ago
Anonymous
Yeah no shit...did anyone say it would?
Was that supposed to be the premise of the elephant fight here? If so, this thread is even more retarded.
3 months ago
Anonymous
considering how the animals are placed in the OP yes that's most likely the premise of the fight. i'd recommend absconding if it upsets you
3 months ago
Anonymous
And here I thought that was just a handy size comparison, I guess my autism isn't high enough to see that and assume both animals would abandon all sense of self preservation and attack each other head on at each other's most dangerous point.
3 months ago
Anonymous
That's only stupid from the elephants point of view, unless it's the angolan behemoth in musth vs a rex. The only logical outcome if an average rex charged an average elephant bull is that the elephant turns tail and tries to escape. They are intelligent creatures and all signs point to them being fully aware of their own mortality, it would not stand and fight unless it was backed up against a cliff face or something. Elephants can get spooked into retreating, if a mouse or some creepy crawly can make them turn tail, an 8 ton predator certainly would.
3 months ago
Anonymous
I agree, with the caveat that the rex wouldn't attack the elephant head on either and run right into the tusks. These things hunted triceratops, so this wouldn't it be its first rodeo going up against something with long sharp parts pointing forward. The rex would know better.
The only time you'd these two go head to head like in (apparently) the picture would be either the elephant in musth like you said, or if one was defending its young from the other maybe (certainly for the elephant).
3 months ago
Anonymous
it's kind of like a silverback gorilla fighting a black bear. you could make an argument for the gorilla's aggression and mass being enough to make the black bear think it wouldn't be worth a prolonged confrontation and run away but if both animals stayed and fought to the death the bear would probably be taking it
Fine, it is the “Ojo Alamo Tyrannosaurid”, an animal known from teeth and other non-diagnostic fragments, in the same era, and in a location that it could have walked to from Hell Creek, that hunted Alamosaurus, not Tyrannosaurus Rex.
You got me, there’s 0 chance it’s the same animal.
>inb4 seethe
The South American Titanosaurs that Alamosaurus descends from were hunted by the Megaraptorans who specialized in Sauropods after the Carcharadontosaurs kacked it. If Tyrannosaurs didn’t eat Alamosaurus, why isn’t there an End Cretaceous North American Megaraptoran hunting Alamosaurus?
That would be far more interesting than “Tyrannosaurus filled every top predator niche”.
But there isn’t. The King doesn’t brook competition.
>Built to take on slow, retarded Sauropods maybe. >An African Elephant is basically a massive modern day Ceratopsian.
Biomechanically an elephant is much closer to a sauropod than a ceratopsian. Just look at its fucking legs.
ELEPHANT WINS EVERY TIME. Consider the following facts. >Dino is relatively fragile with hollow bird like bones >Dino suffers bipedalism >Dino has ZERO REACH. Elephant has a trunk >Dinosaur has stupid savage lizard brain >Elephant has tusks to act as spears >Dino's are slow and clumsy because retarded cool blood and primitive muscles
The winner is obvious to anybody with a wrinkled brain.
I'd like to point you to the fact that T-rex regularly duked it out with Triceratops... I think it knows to avoid the pointy tusks.
it's really quite simple, an elephant would be "regular prey" for a rex. you really need to look at the regular prey of a rex.
Pretty sure last I heard there were healed wounds on triceratops that could only have been made by a t-rex. That aint scavanging.
ELEPHANT WINS EVERY TIME. Consider the following facts. >Dino is relatively fragile with hollow bird like bones >Dino suffers bipedalism >Dino has ZERO REACH. Elephant has a trunk >Dinosaur has stupid savage lizard brain >Elephant has tusks to act as spears >Dino's are slow and clumsy because retarded cool blood and primitive muscles
The winner is obvious to anybody with a wrinkled brain.
>Elephants >an animal even lions can kill
I'M SURE TO WIN BECAUSE MY NOSE IS SUPERIOR
How is it dishonest? OP's scenario is one elephant versus one t.rex. I'm sure even you could beat a single rat, but 100 starving rats could be a problem.
3 months ago
Anonymous
A lion is much bigger compared to an elephant than even the biggest rats are to humans. Again, quit being disingenous, a Tyrannosaurus (and any Megatherapod in general maaaybe sans Spinosaurus) mops the floor with any extant elephant, even the Giant of Angola would be turned into a bloody wreck at some point.
Elephant runs towards T-Rex and impales it on its tusks
No matter how blunt they look 10 tons of proboscidean behind them will definitely have them puncture deeply, and with their roughly equal heights the elephant would be able to use the horns as fixed points to wrestle the less grounded theropod into submission - something Triceratops would’ve been unable to do due to its shortness of height and horns
Would still bet on the T-Rex 60/40 though, elephant doesn’t have any defense besides suicidal aggression
I laughed so fucking hard, thanks you two, I can't help but think of the "get behind and pummel It" Wauf copy pasta but this time It's the T-Rex doing It lmao
Why is Wauf spammed with daily pet seethe threads and dinosaur shitposts
I propose two new generals
/redditpetfree/ - for waiting out your ban from reddit and sparing people who have sex lives from deranged screeching about cats and dogs
/PPFAG/ - prehistoric planet fauna appreciation general
I am sure this thread will be forcibly derailed into whining about some “globomo conspiracy” like the others too
People in here think T.Rex would win?
The Angola behemoth outweighs Scotty by 2 tons.
The T.Rex would get demolished.
Why does it always have to be a bush elephant vs a tyrannosaurus rex? Why can't it ever be a woolly mammoth vs a nanuqsaurus or pachyrhinosaurus?
reckon the mammoth takes it
How about this?
Long loooooong maaaAAAAAAaaaaannn.
It was a small game hunter it wouldn't fuck with a rhino
Rhino is actually capable of royally fucking up dinosaurs even on the 6+ ton range. Elephants use actual tactics when they square off against rhinos, like by throwing rocks and branches at them to distract them because their horns are genuinely lethal to even an elephant.
And because dinos aren't even close to having the notion of same intelligence as Elephants, the only way they can harm is by going behind a rhino. Only a T. Rex would even stand a chance going against a rhino head to head.
That's just about a 2000 kg size difference. Scotty probably eats dirt
these threads are (you) farms
just dont engage, the only constructive discussion we've had was in the first few iterations of this thread
OP is merely shitposting with how he constantly makes these threads
more food for thought:
"Long-bone circumference and weight in mammals, birds and dinosaurs" has tyrannosaurus rex at 4,500 kg
"The dinosaur heresies : new theories unlocking the mystery of the dinosaurs and their extinction" has it at 5,000 kg
"Gigantism and comparative life-history parameters of tyrannosaurid dinosaurs" has it at 5,000 kg
"Body mass, bone ''strength indicator'', and cursorial potential of Tyrannosaurus rex" has it at 6,000 kg
"A new method to calculate allometric length–mass relationships of dinosaurs" has it at 6,650.9 kg
"Mass Prediction in Theropod Dinosaurs" has it at 6,300 kg
We went over this last thread. the T. rex's thick coat of feathers would protect it from the elephant's tusks
Just realized I've thought trexes were godzilla sized since I was a kid.
people are always scrutinizing t. rex weight estimates with a fine tooth comb because it's a dinosaur, meanwhile nobody is talking about the upper estimate for p. namadicus being extremely liberal and based on extremely fragmentary remains that also happen to be lost and unverifiable
meanwhile upcoming papers are discussing t. rex specimen weighing up to 12 tons, and we're all gonna talk about it because at the end of the day, its a dinosaur, and dinosaurs are cooler than elephants
elesisters... not like this...
>there genuinely could have been a trex this large and we'd never know
square cube law would cuck it
that only applies to insects
If we can have 170 ton sauropods we could have 50 ton theropods. Turns out what we thought were hard limits on terrestial life were not hard limits at all. In the end it is just paleontologists going "NOOO that's impossible" and then trying their damn hardest to explain away physical evidence.
The case of bruhathkayosaurus is an interesting one, they lived on an isolated island which would be current day india, yet they possibly grew to be larger than blue whales. This indicates a case of island gigantism, which then begs the question what predatory pressure caused them to grow so huge.
Not claiming that there were 50 ton theropods, rather that I will not be a giant asshole and dismiss it because of some ((science)) gnosis.
A sauropod is a quadruped built to be able to sustain it's own enormous bodyweight and grow to such sizes, a theropod isn't
You're talking as if evolution is not a thing. Yes you cannot take a 5 ton theropod and upscale it to 40 tons, but there is no reason to think it is impossible for such a large theropod to evolve to such sizes.
The initial argument was about a mystery t-rex that was supposedly that size, if there was a different theropod that evolved to that size then it would not just look like an upscaled t-rex
I've never made that argument, that was some other anon. I made the case that there might have been such mega theropods and gave a reason due to bruhathkayosaurus possibly evolved to it's gargantuan proportions due to predatory pressure.
Estimates based on literally a single bone are never valid.
Bruhathkayosaurus doesn't exist in any practical sense. Until more material is found, there is no point on speculating about its size.
Otherwise you're going to run into a Deinocheirus situation or worse.
enter
I'm reading here they weighed 4,000kg max that's a good 2,000 kg lighter than the average bull elephant
that's not a hadrosaur
Yes it is
Shantungosaurus is notoriously the largest hadrosaur
How did it get that big without any real defense?
Like, aurochs were huge, but they have massive horns. Bison are the same. Elephants have tusks. Hippos have massive jaws. Rhinos have horns. Etc.
So what was the trick for Hadrosaurs?
They don't seem to have had much in the way of defense at all.
i took the liberty of making this. regardless of your thoughts on bush elephant vs rex you have to admit steppe mammoth bulls would make a t-rex turn tail and run away in a head to head confrontation
thats not a steppe mammoth, thats palaeoloxodon namadicus
They had the same shoulder height but the palaeoloxodon was several thousand kilograms heavier and had longer tusks
Didin't Scotty get mogged by a new t.rex unironically called cope?
did he? didn't he? i'm sure you've looked it up by now, which is it?
T-rex was built for 1v1ing other giant dinosaurs. Elephant is fucked. Maybe if the elephant had thick armored hide and a powerful tail… like a dinosaur, it would have a shot. Elephants are only big shot bad asses in modern day because the next biggest animal is 1/4 its size. Suddenly you have huge predator that’s even bigger than the elephant? T-rex was definitely stronger pound for pound too. No contest. Elephants would go extinct in a Cretaceous environment.
>T-rex was built for 1v1ing other giant dinosaurs.
Built to take on slow, retarded Sauropods maybe.
An African Elephant is basically a massive modern day Ceratopsian.
Can't say who will in a 1-v-1, but it's not gonna be easy for the T-rex.
> Suddenly you have huge predator that’s even bigger than the elephant
FFS I blame Jurassic Park for this shit. A t-rex is not Godzilla.
T-rexes aren't bigger than Bush Elephants.
The average rex is around 4-6 tons. That's around the same weight as a male African Elephant. I think their max weight is similar too.
Sauropods had no natural predators, they were pretty much real life kaijus
Wtf are you yammering about? T-rexes preyed on shit way more dangerous than saggy, baggy, defenseless elephants. A t-Rex wasn’t Godzilla? Wtf does that mean? Is a lion Godzilla because it can kill a buffalo wtf are you talking about this is just a lion except it has a mouth big enough to bite an elephant’s head off.
Again t-rex was an animal built to prey on shit like elephants except way more formidable versions. Elephants are big badasses because nothing can prey on them so they don’t need armored hide or a huge tail or any of that shit. Like, an alephant? I don’t get it, it’s literally a worse triceratops without tough, scaly hide, a powerful tail to defend its flanks and a bony frill protecting its neck. Like lmfao why on fucking Earth do you think herbivorous dinosaurs looked like tanked out dragons? Because if they didn’t have tough armor and all this other shit protecting their necks and vital spots they’d get fucking killed like an elephant would. A t-rex would probably just bite its trunk off.
shit like this is what he's talking about where you're assuming it was some otherworldly dragon creature instead of an animal. if rexy were to look at a bull elephant it would probably not confront it. looks too much like a grown triceratops. if you're talking about predation then yes the tyrannosaurus will prey on the bush elephant but even then it will target females, juveniles and inexperienced males
then you have constant posts every single thread of this flavor saying "yeah t rexes were 10,000 kilograms and 16 feet on average, were smarter than great apes and traveled in huge packs which outnumber elephants bro" then someone asks for proof and bam, silence
A T-rex has the strength, mobility, stealth and size to view elephants as prey. You're getting all haughty, asking if T-rex is some sort of dragon, completely blind to your own assessment of an elephant as some sort of rampaging behemoth that would trample and spear a predator near twice it's size. Basically, you're projecting your own dramatizations on others, you're the one making a charicature of an animal.
That an 8-10 ton predator would prey on a 5-6 ton herbivore is a foregone conclusion.
>muh muh 10 ton elephant
we have a couple dozen t-rex specimens, 42ft and 8 tons is statistically more likely to represent a species average than maxima, unless you're next going to argue that we by chance dug up multiple 1:10 000 specimens. A T-rex as freakishly oversized as a 10 ton elephant might have been 16 tons 50ft long, going for species maximums is a dumb argument so please don't make it.
i straight up said tyrannosaurus would prey on elephants. if you got this much wrong then i'm not reading the rest of your post
Bullshit, you said a t-rex would prey on young and weak, baked into that is the idea that a rex would shy away from a bull elephant, which is what I addressed. You just got pissy that your hypocrisy got illuminated to you and as a massive cope, acted like you did not read it.
as they would, because they're still large animals with a lot of meat and easier to manage than a bull, every predator will logically target smaller specimens. stop being a clown
Now we're strawmaning. Try to read my post again you mouthbreathing midwit.
simmer down, birdbrain
That's... not a strawman argument. Ironically, you made one yourself just now
It's a strawman as what was addressed by me to you was your implied notion that a Rex would not engage a bull elephant, such as if it happened upon a lone bull it would not attempt predation, rather it would only seek out young or smaller individuals.
Instead of following up on that point, you bypassed it and focused on a point I was not making.
Not everyone in this thread is the same person, you effeminate posting, gibbering schizoid
Then type nta you moron.
Plz post models, articles, studies or literally anything to justify the average T-Rex being 12,000 kilograms (twice the size of a Bull elephant). You’ve been a coward and scoundrel for 4 threads in a row, making these asinine claims of T-Rex fighting male, grown Triceratops and Sauropods like in Mortal Kombat, head on and without fear, and without dying, without anything to show for it. You will post the proof of your claims, now
>near twice the size
>twice the size
read better. Beyond that, that was my first post in this thread, I don't give a shit what you have argued with some other guy, nor will I bother to find out.
8,000 is not “near” 12,000. Articulate yourself better and quit being a snarky bitch. Post the studies, articles or any iota of proof, because that’s the very least the elephant fags mustered up
8-10 tons is near double of 5-6 tons you goalpost shifting pussyfooter. You're refusing to engage on how you're right to say that anyone looking at an 9 ton predator taking on a 5,5 ton (using averages of the numbers here) herbivore are equating the rex to a goddamn dragon, yet you're not the one doing the selfsame thing by saying the elephant could see of a Rex. You're deliberately acting dumb to avoid engaging on the points you're just flat out wrong about, instead you're arguing strawmen.
"Average" for a bull would be 5,200kg - 6,900kg and that's a mean. That comes from "Shoulder height, body mass, and shape of proboscideans" which was posted several threads ago. Meanwhile you're not posting any sources or proof. You will post it now, you rancid bitch
A rex's weight is still almost double 5200-6900
Proof? Models? Papers? Articles? Textbooks?
Sources? for what? That T-rex weight estimates are at 8-10 tons? I assumed that was common knowledge at this point after the volumetric studies based of 3d models. But if you cannot be arsed to dig it up yourself, here:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3192160/
Also, 5,200 - 6,900 is 5-6 tons, just as 8,200-10,900 is 8-10 tons. Not sure what you were trying to archieve here.
That's all I wanted to "achieve", some fucking proof
hate to butt in but https://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/dinosaurs-ancient-fossils/theropod-biomechanics/the-problem-of-size#:~:text=of%20one%20very%20big%20extinct%20animal%2C%20Tyrannosaurus%20rex.&text=The%20most%20famous%20of%20the,as%20the%20largest%20African%20elephant. says it's 5,000 kg to 7,000 kg which averages out to the same as a bull african elpehant according to the study in but if we wanna talk proboscideans i wanna remind y'all of
which would be a 11,000 kg MEAN with a maximum over 19,000 kg
That's not a study, it's a "factbox" of unknown validity or age, might as well ask for the source this "source" used. I've already posted a link to a recent volumetric study of the mass of these animals.
Seems like this is some "my animal is cooler than yours" sort of deal, which is just dumb. I get it you love elephants or whatever, but it is irksome when people unironically thinks that a predator almost twice the mass of a herbivore would be unable to pray on it, even more so when proponents of such a silly idea think it that drawing such obvious conclutions must mean you think the animal is some sort of kaiju or dragon.
now that's just projection. i felt it was worth bringing up because 5000-6000 kilos was the weight when i was young. and because i think steppe mammoths would easily bully a t-rex
In general predators prey on animals much smaller or weaker than themselves. Fair fights are extremely risky.
The papers I’m finding that talk about the maximum weight for any proboscideans in the ranges you postulate are using allometric curves and statistical analysis to imagine a creature that size, which is the same methodology used to posit 20 ton 17+meter Tyrannosaurs. I’m not interested in either of these figures, this is “movie monster” imagineering, not verifiable evidence.
And unfortunately, the largest Paleoloxodon fragments are rotting in a basement somewhere because no one’s been able to find them to verify their WWII era descriptions in the last 60 years, so we can’t even say with authority that the animals Larramendi is basing these statistical analysis movie monsters on are even reliably described themselves.
it's just cool to think about proboscideans and theropods in a brawl situation like when gwangi fought an asiatic elephant. but i don't see any 20,000 kg tyrannosaurus estimates anywhere, most are comfortably in the 5-7 or 8-9 (metric) ton range. the more the rex's size is bloated i think the more screwed over it gets by the lower oxygen levels nowadays relative to the cretaceous
What can an elpehant actually do though? If you hug its hind legs it can't reach you with its truck, and its too sluggish to get away while you repeatedly pommel it from behind. If you stand to the side of its hind legs then it won't even be able to hit you with a back kick. If it raises its leg to perform a stomp then all you have to do is back off until it finishes its slam, then move back in to continue punching.
Do you even read posts or do you just shout angrily into the void?
>we have a couple dozen t-rex specimens, 42ft and 8 tons is statistically more likely to represent a species average than maxima,
The current T.Rex Maxima is either the Cope specimen (BHI6248), conservatively estimable at over 12,000 kg, and another specimen currently being published on might push that maxima even further.
>if rexy were to look at a bull elephant it would probably not confront it. looks too much like a grown triceratops
So it looks too much like its primary prey item?
The elephant looking like something the rex killed and ate for a living would deter it...how exactly?
because tyrannosaurus didn't go "come at me bro" and charge triceratops directly. you are aware of that?
Yeah no shit...did anyone say it would?
Was that supposed to be the premise of the elephant fight here? If so, this thread is even more retarded.
considering how the animals are placed in the OP yes that's most likely the premise of the fight. i'd recommend absconding if it upsets you
And here I thought that was just a handy size comparison, I guess my autism isn't high enough to see that and assume both animals would abandon all sense of self preservation and attack each other head on at each other's most dangerous point.
That's only stupid from the elephants point of view, unless it's the angolan behemoth in musth vs a rex. The only logical outcome if an average rex charged an average elephant bull is that the elephant turns tail and tries to escape. They are intelligent creatures and all signs point to them being fully aware of their own mortality, it would not stand and fight unless it was backed up against a cliff face or something. Elephants can get spooked into retreating, if a mouse or some creepy crawly can make them turn tail, an 8 ton predator certainly would.
I agree, with the caveat that the rex wouldn't attack the elephant head on either and run right into the tusks. These things hunted triceratops, so this wouldn't it be its first rodeo going up against something with long sharp parts pointing forward. The rex would know better.
The only time you'd these two go head to head like in (apparently) the picture would be either the elephant in musth like you said, or if one was defending its young from the other maybe (certainly for the elephant).
it's kind of like a silverback gorilla fighting a black bear. you could make an argument for the gorilla's aggression and mass being enough to make the black bear think it wouldn't be worth a prolonged confrontation and run away but if both animals stayed and fought to the death the bear would probably be taking it
>he thinks people genuinely believe T. rex hunted Sauropods
laugh at the retard everybody
Fine, it is the “Ojo Alamo Tyrannosaurid”, an animal known from teeth and other non-diagnostic fragments, in the same era, and in a location that it could have walked to from Hell Creek, that hunted Alamosaurus, not Tyrannosaurus Rex.
You got me, there’s 0 chance it’s the same animal.
>inb4 seethe
The South American Titanosaurs that Alamosaurus descends from were hunted by the Megaraptorans who specialized in Sauropods after the Carcharadontosaurs kacked it. If Tyrannosaurs didn’t eat Alamosaurus, why isn’t there an End Cretaceous North American Megaraptoran hunting Alamosaurus?
That would be far more interesting than “Tyrannosaurus filled every top predator niche”.
But there isn’t. The King doesn’t brook competition.
Not full grown individuals but the young and dying would be targets for any large T. Rex.
An adult sauropod would easily roflstomp any t-rex that ever existed
Giganotosaurus mostly hunted sauropods that were smaller than Edmontosaurus or Triceratops. Not all sauropods are gigantic.
>Built to take on slow, retarded Sauropods maybe.
>An African Elephant is basically a massive modern day Ceratopsian.
Biomechanically an elephant is much closer to a sauropod than a ceratopsian. Just look at its fucking legs.
ELEPHANT WINS EVERY TIME. Consider the following facts.
>Dino is relatively fragile with hollow bird like bones
>Dino suffers bipedalism
>Dino has ZERO REACH. Elephant has a trunk
>Dinosaur has stupid savage lizard brain
>Elephant has tusks to act as spears
>Dino's are slow and clumsy because retarded cool blood and primitive muscles
The winner is obvious to anybody with a wrinkled brain.
I'd like to point you to the fact that T-rex regularly duked it out with Triceratops... I think it knows to avoid the pointy tusks.
it's really quite simple, an elephant would be "regular prey" for a rex. you really need to look at the regular prey of a rex.
No evidence of active predation on living triceratops. Most likely a scavenger given shallow tooth roots and lack of feathers.
Pretty sure last I heard there were healed wounds on triceratops that could only have been made by a t-rex. That aint scavanging.
>Elephants
>an animal even lions can kill
I'M SURE TO WIN BECAUSE MY NOSE IS SUPERIOR
Lions hunt in large groups. No lion could kill an elephant 1v1.
Quit being disingenous.
How is it dishonest? OP's scenario is one elephant versus one t.rex. I'm sure even you could beat a single rat, but 100 starving rats could be a problem.
A lion is much bigger compared to an elephant than even the biggest rats are to humans. Again, quit being disingenous, a Tyrannosaurus (and any Megatherapod in general maaaybe sans Spinosaurus) mops the floor with any extant elephant, even the Giant of Angola would be turned into a bloody wreck at some point.
>Elephants
>an animal even lions can kill
Not even one of those huge prides that specialise in large prey are taking down a 10 tonne bull
What can an elephant do, really? The T-Rex could just get behind it and start biting, moving out of the way for stomps
Elephant runs towards T-Rex and impales it on its tusks
No matter how blunt they look 10 tons of proboscidean behind them will definitely have them puncture deeply, and with their roughly equal heights the elephant would be able to use the horns as fixed points to wrestle the less grounded theropod into submission - something Triceratops would’ve been unable to do due to its shortness of height and horns
Would still bet on the T-Rex 60/40 though, elephant doesn’t have any defense besides suicidal aggression
>The T-Rex could just get behind it
Dino fans are fucking retarded I swear.
I laughed so fucking hard, thanks you two, I can't help but think of the "get behind and pummel It" Wauf copy pasta but this time It's the T-Rex doing It lmao
newfags getting filtered by this post makes it even funnier lmao
Whoever wins, we lose
Why is Wauf spammed with daily pet seethe threads and dinosaur shitposts
I propose two new generals
/redditpetfree/ - for waiting out your ban from reddit and sparing people who have sex lives from deranged screeching about cats and dogs
/PPFAG/ - prehistoric planet fauna appreciation general
I am sure this thread will be forcibly derailed into whining about some “globomo conspiracy” like the others too
Where are the feathers?
already discredited
No feathers, Trust the Science™
>globomo
was this just a typo or are you daft
thats the worst ratatan the owl is the best
>people who have sex lives
Get the fuck out of here you fucking normalfag!