aren't reptile puppy mills kinda fucked up? Posted on September 22, 2022 by Anonymous aren't reptile puppy mills kinda fucked up?
I'm worried about my dad, guys. He was a full blown alcohol but he's on something new and now he's passed out and nodding in and out of consciousness most of the day...
Any idea what I can do? I took this picture of him while he was passed out in one of his hazes...
All puppy mills are.
Wauf has got to be one of the stupidest boards on the site.
If -thing- involves -animal species- and humans, there's a 90% chance it's kinda fucked up.
>you don't understand, these animals want to be hungry all the time, 50% diseases and parasites by weight, and die the noble death of being eaten alive asshole first! It's the natural way!
PETArds are a joke.
>you don't understand, by imprisoning this animal I am protecting him from all the dangers which it has evolved naturally to respond to while exposing him to unnatural stressors that he hasn't
>which it has evolved naturally to respond to while exposing him to unnatural stressors that he hasn't
Yeah because animals that do not exist in the wild like cattle and dogs totally have evolved to survive in the wild.
Euthanize them then.
>it's fine if my snake is completely immobilized I dont see what could be wrong with that
I can tell you guys defending this shit never did even a slight bit of physical exercise in your lives. Any being with heart, lungs and muscles benefits from the ability to exercise them
this point is lost on most reptile fans because they're cottage cheese bodied sacks of shit usually
a little disengenuous to act like being raised in captivity with a bunch of other snakes vs being in a spacious terrarium in some autist's bedroom are somehow comparable guys
Snakes like the tight spaces in those drawers from what I understand. Also most snakes I’ve seen in terrarium type setups literally still just sit in a little corner.
yeah, snakes are in the middle of the food chain, they dont really like being in exposed areas, thats why ground snake enclosures always have hides for the express purpose of hiding them
>they dont really like being in exposed areas
Doesn't mean that they don't like being in a variety of places. In nature you will find pythons in tall grass, forest canopies, tree cavities, aquatic environments and many other locations. Forcing them to live in a tiny shoebox is abuse.
>Snakes like the tight spaces in those drawers
But they also like to climb trees, swim in rivers, live in more than one location and reproduce with each other. If they didn't they wouldn't do it in nature.
>Snakes like the tight spaces in those drawers from what I understand
Don’t buy into this rackfag cope. While snakes like to have tight spaces they also prefer larger enclosures with a hiding spot inside rather than the enclosure itself being the hiding spot. There’s been at least a couple studies on this that shows they prefer larger enclosures
less bad is subjective
if you see my drawing has no boarders
Every snake in that picture would escape if it had the chance.
I keep mine in a planted vivarium in my library. At night unless it's feeding day I open the doors and let him come out and explore and climb everything while I read. When he's done he goes back into the vivarium of his own accord because I made sure as a baby he knew how to get back to it and he has all of his needs met and feels safe there. Rackmorons get the rope though for sure, they blatantly make shit up to justify their setups despite replicated studies proving otherwise.
> planted vivarium in my library
pic? sounds like a villain setup
Funnily enough, despite the stereotypes I have found that the Wauf snakefags are very caring with their animals, and unlike a lot of other groups on Wauf they don't lust after their own animals.
idk I don't think that's true. there are too many vore freaks so I think snake owners are probably the most lustful after dog and horse owners
Us catbros LOVE
that's because the weird vorefags and live feeders (and the powerfeeders, which is itself a weird sexual thing IMO) are creepy fucking weirdos that no one likes and makes the rest of the people that just want to watch neat animals in cool environments we built for them to live in look bad by comparison.
nah, the whole point of animals is to reproduce, they wouldn't care about what happen to the babies afterwards, in fact many get eaten by their own parents most of the time.
Reptiles are soulless flesh machines
Although true, humans are not so its still fucked up. Animal life should always be respected.
unless you are gonna eat or assrape those snakes then it's not fucked up, they are pets, people give them attention, feed them and even love them more than their own families or friends.
Try to open your snake's enclosure for a day and see how much it values your love and attention.
no, YOU love them, they will not love you back they are basically pre-programmed NPCs that just follow basic imputs, that's all.
If you love and respect animals you admire them in their natural habitats where they can follow all their "basic inputs" instead of forcing them to live in a box.
you are thinking love is the same as conservationism, there's diferent kinds of love, and the love people have for reptiles is more of a obsession that very well might be seen as insane at times.
I agree with OP that breeder mills are fucked and should be shut down, at least for anything with a vertebrae. However this thread got infested with PETAFag bullshit arguments real quick.
Feeder rodent husbandry is even worse.
wait like mice bred to be shipped to snake owner's house?
yeah I gues you're right
I definitely feel that there’s a morality line that a lot of reptile breeders step over.
I love my snake but I also keep pet mice and it hurts to think about how feeders are kept.
Use chickens instead. Problem solved
>implying chickens aren't even worse
Every animal industry is pretty much terrible. Hell, every industrial location in Asia is terrible, whatever is being made. Bugmen are the fucking worst.
But like most bad things, very little you can do will have any impact beyond erroneously clearing your conscience. i.e. Why bother with not eating meat if you're going to do so on a phone built by slave labor wearing clothes made by children.
Why can't we feed snakes söybeans like we do for dogs, cats, and all livestock.
Pets in and of themselves are fucked up. They should be banned, they won't be banned, no point in talking about it any further.
go home antinatalist, you're being ethically inconsistent and coming across as a PETA member.
Explain to me why you are justified in keep an animal prisoner against its will and ensuring it will never reproduce or live a happy natural life?
>he thinks an animal's natural life is happy
Completely irrelevant. You're not rescuing an animal from the wild when you get a pet
are you suggesting it's better for the animal to never have been born than being kept as a pet?
the animal never experience anything by not existing
a pet life is not empty of struggle
even the happiest of all pets will get sick and die
no animal wants to die by relation non of them wanted to exist
Not the dude you're replying to, but yeah. Pets are unnecessary, and for every good owner there's a thousand bad owners. Their chances of having a decent life are not good. So yeah, that's better.
Plus, I'd rather not be spending money on dog food and vets than spending money on food and vets. No pet, no problem.
Never being born is better than having a miserable existence, yes
What if the pet has a good life? Do the unavoidable bad aspects inherent to life cancel out the good parts and the pet would still have been better off never being born?
>this prison provides shelter, food, and comfort
>yea but its a prison
>ARE YOU SAYING YOUD BE HAPPIER OUTSIDE OF THIS LITERAL PRISON WHERE YOU WOULDNT ALWAYS HAVE SHELTER, FOOD, AND COMFORT?!?!?!?! WHY DONT YOU WANT TO BE IN THIS LITERAL PRISON IM SO CONFUSED
It's a literal prison, dork. Everything values freedom over comfort except for cucked-out human beings that think too much and think a little bit of struggle is the same thing as literal torture.
>animals understand the concept of freedom
See prior "its retarded" comment. You fucking sheltered baby cunts have this idyllic view of nature like its some kind of disney cartoon. EVERY animal that has anything that could arguably be called a brain is in a constant state of vigilance, regardless of what theyre doing, because at any moment something else could come out of fucking nowhere, pin it down, and eat it alive. The only animals that dont have to worry about that are apex predators, and you can see this in their behavior. If youve ever had to tame down an animal thats not domesticated you would know this because they have to be slowly acclimated to the mere presence of people because otherwise they think you are going to kill and eat them. If being a kept by a human wasnt objectively better than having to scrape together whatever food you could to survive and be prepared at all times to literally run for your life, we wouldnt have been able to domesticate animals in the first place. Some wolf back in the ancestral environment decided "fuck it, being with humans is just better, im staying here" because it very obviously was.
>If being a kept by a human wasnt objectively better than having to scrape together whatever food you could to survive and be prepared at all times to literally run for your life, we wouldnt have been able to domesticate animals in the first place
Most pets have to be contained in an inescapable enclosure all their life or else they will run away. Even if they escape for a long time, suffer and are put back in their prison they will try to escape again at any opportunity, because anything is better than living in a cage or terrarium. If living in a cage with food and water is so good why don't you do it yourself? It's really easy to end up in one.
My dog will chase after rabbits and shit, but he would never run away for good. He has it better here than he could ever have it elsewhere, he's a pack animal and he enjoys being with his pack (me). I live rural so there's lots of nature and bullshit for him to entertain himself with even if I'm not available, I don't think he could imagine a better life for himself considering he'd get murdered by bears if he decided to fully fuck off into the backwoods.
What kind of prison we talking? Those swanky Finnish prisons that are like 3 star hotels/fancy dormitory? Hell yeah, I'd stab one of you fuckers here to get in there.
>Explain to me why you are justified in keep an animal prisoner against its will
My dog has mad many chances to run away into the woods to live like his wolf ancestors and get eaten by a bear in 2 days, but he always looks for me and comes back
Imagine being so up your own ass you think you know animal happiness more than the animals themselves or the people that care for them
Now keep seething anon, while I live happily with my doggo
So your justification for causing animals high levels of stress and subjecting them to an unhealthy diet is they'll get eaten if they live in their natural habitat? That's an ethical inconsistency if I ever saw one.
Living beings are not your toys. You're sociopaths. Fuck off.
>causing animals high levels of stress and subjecting them to an unhealthy diet
whole lot of assumptions there.
>Living beings are not your toys.
This is the mantra of the weak. Don't be like this guy.
>being cruel to animals makes me strong
Hard to be weaker than someone who absolutely needs to keep a powerless animal in a cage to feel powerful.
No, you're legit just fucking bitch-made. You keep bringing up cages like it's even relevant to the discussion. How many people keep cats in cages? Pic related. This little shit is free to fuck off whenever she pleases considering she isn't even mine and I don't know where she came from. Yet for some reason she likes it here under my porch enough to keep coming back. Probably because of the food and attention. Plenty of people keep outdoor cats just fine. Likewise with dogs.
>You keep bringing up cages like it's even relevant to the discussion
It is. Read the OP post.
And the discussion has since segued away from the bullshit in OPs post (which IS gross) and turned into some bullshit about how keeping a pet in any capacity is somehow tantamount to torture (which is retarded PETA bullshit). Unless you're a different dude. I kinda got lost in the arguments.
Oh the humanity. Such terrible imprisonment
>Inb4 seething about strays
Just said she wasn't mine. I guess she is now though.
>causing animals high levels of stress and subjecting them to an unhealthy diet
Just don’t cause them stress and feed them a healthy diet. Problem solved
Antinatalists should be put to the sword. While I agree that most owners are shit, most of the people that actually get informed about the animal they're getting end up being great owners. Most of the people on this board are probably great owners save the few mentally ill, so this anon spewing his Peta propaganda ought to kill himself as soon as possible.
A snake will always choose to be outside of a terrarium rather than inside even if it risks to die.
You can be the best owner in the world but if you keep the doors of your terrarium open for a day you won't have a pet anymore.
they're just too stupid to understand they're gonna get cold out in your house...sure they want to explore. so do people but they choose the cubicle because of the security. snakes would choose a warm tank with frozen mice over a cold dusty corner with no food if they were informed but they won't be because their IQ is like 5
dogs cant grasp the concept of living being, dont anthropomorphize
All my fish fuck in the tanks and make babies? My shrimp do and so do the snails. Dogs evolved to become out bros same with cats. Also any animal small enough to be hunted is ok to be a pet imo because of the obvious fact being cared for by an autismo is better than being eaten. Large animals like safari shit and other “exotic” pets I agree should be left in the wild.
>being cared for by an autismo is better than being eaten
Open your hamster's cage for a day and see if it agrees.
Explain to me how you know they are kept against their will, care about reproduction, and make a distinction between a "natural life" and an unnatural one.
There is compassion and then there is the seflish desire to see what you consider more beautiful and correct even if it involves considerably more suffering.
I do not see the keeping of pets any different than the raising of children in society. What are you? You are kept prisoner, you are a leashed and trained dog, you will never live a natural life and are not able to. You can not oppose pets without opposing society as a whole. A pet is nothing more than an animal other than a hominid born into society like the rest of us. And are we not also animals? Did we evolve for this any more or less than a dog? If it is right for us, then it is right for a dog, but not a parrot, because they did not evolve for this and were never bred for it. But if it is not right for a dog, then it is not right for us, and you are a hypocrite if you believe a dog can not be a willing participant in this, while you gladly exchange freedom and a "natural life" (assuming human society is, retardedly, not as much a part of nature as forest life, which is nothing more than a society of other species with its own hardships...) for the ability to post on Wauf?
You are a dog, so for what reason would the dog want more than what you have? Sort yourself out and prove to us that a domestic animal is better off "free", living according to the society of the forest, as if ours is any less natural!
Please read your post again and acknowledge the monstruous word salad you created.
Okay, since going vegan or whatever has shrunk your brain, let me make it easy for you to understand
GRUG THINK PET SLAVE, BUT GRUG PET TOO.
he's antinatalist, there's no arguing with it. They think nobody should ever be born because sometimes it's a bit painful to be alive. That is unironically how some people view the world, yet they dont kill themselves immediately (proving themselves wrong)
Only when it comes to retards like you.
Life is worth living and propagating, but it should also be respected. Wild animals belong in their native habitats, not in plastic cages. Doesn't matter if living in their habitats exposes them to predation, it's where they want to be and where they can express all of their natural behaviors and ecological functions.
I'm not defending the battery shit you see in OP but it's completely fine to keep a pet in adequate living spaces for it
Did you ask them if they cared? Do THEY give a shit about ecological functions? Or is this just selfishness on your part? You feel good when you see nature, you benefit from nature, and you don't give a shit about what's actually living in nature?
And what about natural behaviors? Most pet animals (most, i will never defend shit like parrots, or snakes for that matter, even if snakes definitely don't give a shit) have evolved to live in human settlements. We are part of nature (and if we aren't, you are free to leave and go be natural and ecologically functional). We are their ecosystem, our homes are where they belong. For the majority of pets the best thing you could do would not be to set them free in the woods but to ban cars, subhumans like caniphobe muslims and cat killers, and set them free in towns instead, and then most of them would choose to make one home their territory and spend 80% of their time there like they already do.
Sadly this post has a lot of words and contains complex sentences, multiple trains of thought, and such and such so you won't read it. You'll just screech "word salad" because the complexity of one paragraph is beyond you, it hurts your head to comprehend it or something like that. I mean it's pretty clear just from your beliefs that you can only think of one thing at a time and can't think deeply so this post is most likely nonsense to you.
>Did you ask them if they cared?
Leave the terrarium open and see for yourself.
>Do THEY give a shit about ecological functions?
Of course they do. Reproducing for example is something they do out of their own volition, they risk their lives to do it.
>most, i will never defend shit like parrots, or snakes for that matter, even if snakes definitely don't give a shit
That's exactly what I'm talking about, and snakes do give a shit.
>You'll just screech "word salad"
I called your other post a word salad because of the syntax, not the length.
>leave the terrarium open
We were talking about pets in general. I already agreed that wild animals are not pets. They have instinctive territory needs that can not be met by any owners save the wealthiest.
>Of course they do
Are they conscious of the act of reproduction or are they operating on the level of a teenager jerking off who is so dumb they have no idea sex makes babies? Because sex feels so good I think the fact that it feels good is the sole motivator for the majority of nonhumans. They do not understand reproduction and in fact do not "consent" to reproducing, even naturally, it just hits them and then they deal with it.
>Snakes do give a shit
They don't give a shit but snake owners are also exclusively gay psychopaths.
I spent the first 12 years of my life in norway and still speak better english than most americans moron if you can't trudge through my syntax you are by far the dumbest person I have ever interacted with
NTA, I agree with you and everything, but your syntax is pretty shit.
>But if it is not right for a dog, then it is not right for us, and you are a hypocrite if you believe a dog can not be a willing participant in this, while you gladly exchange freedom and a "natural life" (assuming human society is, retardedly, not as much a part of nature as forest life, which is nothing more than a society of other species with its own hardships...) for the ability to post on Wauf?
You clearly don't know how commas work. Google a run on sentence.
>it's where they want to be
They don’t have a concept of freedom, they don’t even know what the wild is. If you were talking about chimps or elephants than that might be accurate, but not with a fucking snake or cat
cats know where they want to be. lost dogs rarely go more than 2 or 3 blocks from home (like a walk basically) and do their best to return (carfags, toxobrains and mudslimes don’t give them the option). territory grows when they are looking for a home.
I agree except I dont think banning is right. Yeah preventing them from having offspring and keeping some in cages is just unfair and not how theyre supposed to live. I mean youre forcing infertility and imprisonment in a box on an animal for entertainment until its dead lulz. I dont attack strangers for having a pet. I'll play with it and its cute but i couldnt get the ones where i know i cant meet all of its needs. it feels very wrong/uncomfy for me personally. i know others just dont feel it or see this as important.
>Pets in and of themselves are fucked up
Agree. Once my dogs die I'm having a pet-free lifestyle. I kinda wanted to own a blue tongue skink, but the pet industry is fucked up, from breeders to vets. Also, I realized that owning a pet is kinda retarded and a waste of money. I'd rather spend it on a different money pit. I'm not going to give them a single penny anymore.
only working breeds like herding, hunting, guiding and sniffer dogs should be allowed
the lord gave dogs and cats over to man before the smallest grain and the blandest vegetable. in the beginning they were largely useless, economically, and yet we still had them, as god arranged it to be so. they are not expensive or a detriment under the watch of sensible, moral people, as god arranged it to be so. no matter where man takes himself these things are a constant connection to god's creations. they set a standard of goodness for their caretakers, and they set a standard of goodness for all men, for who would be friends with someone that can not outdo a dog, except someone who has no dog to compare them to?
when man abandons his old friends he fully gives himself over to the ways of satan. more efficiency, more profit. every last dollar to the central bank. only animals that contribute to the bankers schemes should be allowed!
Dog hate is for muslims, mormons, talmudists, and protestants.